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all right folks welcome to the afternoon

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session of the asteroid initiative

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synthesis workshop on crowdsourcing and

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citizen science

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for the next few hours we'll be hearing

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from folks that submitted ideas to the

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asteroid initiative rfi pertaining to

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how we might use citizen science and

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crowdsourcing to

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help us to

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find all asteroid threats to human

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populations and know what to do about

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them the grand challenge topic so i have

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a few introductory slides uh to walk

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through and then we'll go ahead and turn

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it over to the presenters

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um

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most of which are joining us through uh

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adobe connect so they'll be joining us

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virtually but they will be available for

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10 minutes right after their uh their

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discussions for q a and they will be

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calling back in at the end for the group

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discussion so that they're part of our

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our brainstorm at the end of the

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discussion as well

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uh to give a little context to what this

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session um

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this session is specifically focusing on

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uh for this particular session we're

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focusing on the asteroid grand challenge

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portion of the asteroid initiative so

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that is the challenge statement is to

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find all asteroid threats to human

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populations and know what to do about

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them

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it is the definition of grand

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in many ways as folks in this room very

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well know and folks watching

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from home also very well know

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this fits in the broader asteroid

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initiative as one of the two parts of

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that effort

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as you know there's both the asteroid

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mission

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discussion that's going on at this

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initiative workshop

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as well as the asteroid grand challenge

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discussions going on at this workshop

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there are two sessions that are

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specifically devoted to grand challenge

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discussions this is one of them the

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other is next generation engagement

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that's going to be happening tomorrow

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morning um

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you can see in this uh in this visual

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representation of where the overlaps of

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these two efforts occur that the the

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principles the spirit of the asteroid

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initiative

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is in many ways that the

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that there are participatory engagement

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opportunities throughout both of these

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activities so it's not just in the grand

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challenge that we're looking to engage

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non-traditional partners and seek

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innovative methods to try to um approach

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the goals of that particular activity

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they're also seeking to do that on the

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mission side of the house as well and so

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we just came this morning from a great

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partnership and participatory engagement

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session at which

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jason and the folks in attendance

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explored how partnership as a whole

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might be able to

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assist in both of the elements of the

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asteroid initiative and there was plenty

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of discussion in that session about how

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whether or not participatory engagement

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meant

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public outreach

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if it meant education

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if it meant educating people about the

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real risks

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if it meant a two-way dialogue about

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policy priorities what did that mean

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what does participatory engagement mean

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or does it mean actually engaging

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individuals in the meaningful work of

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actually accomplishing the goal to find

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all asteroid threats to human

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populations and know what to do about

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them and

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we made sure to note that that's exactly

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what we're here in this session to talk

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about today we're here to talk about the

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meaningful ways in which uh individual

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citizens from around the globe um can

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participate in the many elements of the

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grand challenge

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in a meaningful way to help us find

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where these threats are and know what to

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do about them

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so

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uh moving

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forward um the goals of the session are

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to uh begin

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uh

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the discussion with the global community

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about crowdsourcing and citizen science

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in general as they relate to this grand

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challenge

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and also we see this as one of the

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initial engagements with this particular

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community around

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creating a community driven

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implementation plan so um at the last uh

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asteroid initiative workshop um uh after

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the the the event was canceled after the

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first day a lot of the asteroid

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community stuck around for the second

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day and had a lot of great dialogue

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amongst themselves and with each other

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about what could be done in order to

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further the goals associated with the

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grand challenge

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by the community as well as what nasa

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really needs to do from the community's

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perspective and um i understand was a

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very rich discussion and there were a

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lot of great connections formed and a

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lot of really good energy

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as a result of those discussions and we

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see all of these discussions as being

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part of an intelligent way that we're

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trying to

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architect a series of interactions so

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that we're doing this together as a

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community this is not something nasa is

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doing this is something that we're

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seeking to do together

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and we want to make sure that the

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implementation plan is crafted in in

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that spirit and in that way so today is

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just one of those discussions it's a

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continuation of the discussion from

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september but it's also the beginning of

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a set of discussions that jason is

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leading as the

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asteroid grand challenge program

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executive for the agency

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in the years to come

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so we see this as a beginning this

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session is largely a continuation of the

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beginning

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we also hope to spend some time

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discussing overlaps and energy synergies

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between some of the ideas that are going

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to be independently presented today

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and also we hope that this can spur the

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ideas presented today might spur

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additional ideas from the folks

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participating both in the room and um

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virtually about other ways in which

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citizen science and crowdsourcing might

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be applied to the grand challenge

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um one other thing that we would like to

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encourage you guys to

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do today

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and i'll come back to working

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definitions you'll see

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there on the wiki you'll see a link to a

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wiki

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what we've started in the spirit of

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information sharing and in the spirit of

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continual learning and creating

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knowledge as we go is we've started a

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wiki with a lot of the things we already

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know about citizen science and

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crowdsourcing

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related to the grand challenge and we're

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building on that document through these

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series of discussions so any of you here

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today and watching from home can request

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access now to this wiki it is something

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you have to request status to um and

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jason here has it has the email up so he

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can request you right away so you can

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start contributing um we know there's

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already folks that are lined up to take

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notes um from today in that wiki area

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but um it's also a great place to see

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kind of the baseline of knowledge that

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um we've started to to capture as well

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in this area of citizen science and

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crowdsourcing if you want to participate

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there and of course also feel free to

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tweet questions to us and and comments

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in live live

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live tweet this whole session through um

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using the asteroid gc gc standing for

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grand challenge asteroid gc hashtag

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as far as working definitions go

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there's a lot of this kind of an eye

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chart apologize there's a lot of words

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on this slide but wanted to try to

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set the stage for what we mean by

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citizen science crowdsourcing and crowd

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source science which are kind of three

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different

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concepts so citizen science you'll hear

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of a lot of different citizen science

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activities that have today that um have

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already occurred um and we'll get some

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great lessons learned

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from them um but this is largely a

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scientific research can actually be

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furthered by citizen contributions to

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that research and also individual

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agendas for research can be done based

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on an empowered individual to be able to

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do science and contribute to science on

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their own and so you see a lot of

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citizen science and like the bird

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watching community you see it in

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environmental local environmental

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advocacy there's this group called

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public lab that they actually distribute

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low-cost sensors for people to be able

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to take measurements

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in their community in their local

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community and take that data

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and make scientific conclusions from it

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that can help to inform them advocating

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locally for environmental justice and so

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that is an interesting example of

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citizen science where where the citizen

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is the scientist

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um crowdsourcing

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is a different flavor here it's a

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process where

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the sum of the whole is is or that that

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the sum of the parts is greater than the

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whole so you're actually able to to

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contribute a lot through individual

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contributions to a broader task we do

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this at nasa through some sort of

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sometimes through challenges like what

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we do on the nasa tournament lab in the

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innovation pavilion but also

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there's a lot of instances where

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crowdsourcing projects can involve

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individuals

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doing a bunch of mouse clicks like on

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xuniverse

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individuals doing a bunch of mouse

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clicks to identify whether or not that

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galaxy might be a spiral galaxy or it

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might be a different type of galaxy they

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help to characterize with the human eye

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and go through a lot more data a lot

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quicker than we might be able to

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normally in normal course of business so

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that would be an example of

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crowdsourcing

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and crowdsource science tends to be an

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activity where um

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you're crowdsourcing but for the purpose

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of science it's not necessarily

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individuals doing science on their own

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it's individuals contributing

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microtasking to broader science so

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there's slightly different

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different

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ways of looking at that the whole scope

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of ideas that we're going to be looking

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at today

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um

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after all the presenters share their

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ideas we'll have some time for interim

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discussion at the end where i hope that

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we'll talk about

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some synthesis across the ideas uh gaps

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that still exist kind of use those

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initial ideas as a as a

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a point to um

288
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:02,640
to kick off from for other ideation

289
00:10:07,670 --> 00:10:05,279
so with that being said um we'll go

290
00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:07,680
ahead and transition to

291
00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:09,200
uh carl

292
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,680
from the university of arizona

293
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:13,760
and i forgot to introduce myself so i'll

294
00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:16,399
do that real quick um i'm jen gastetic

295
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:18,399
i'm the prizes and challenges program

296
00:10:21,829 --> 00:10:19,600
executive in the office of the chief

297
00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:21,839
technologist at nasa headquarters and in

298
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,120
that capacity i i lead the advocacy

299
00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:26,959
policy and strategy for the agency's

300
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:29,920
prize and challenge um programs and then

301
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:33,839
to my left is i am jason kessler i am

302
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,480
the program exec for the asteroid grand

303
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:37,839
challenge

304
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,760
also based at headquarters in the office

305
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:41,920
of the chief technologist

306
00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:43,440
so now you know us

307
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:45,519
and go ahead and transfer it now over to

308
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,959
carl who's going to tell us about space

309
00:10:51,269 --> 00:10:49,200
watch and the osiris-rex target asteroid

310
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,279
citizen science programs

311
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,519
okay thanks jen and jason

312
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:54,880
i'm going to be talking about a few

313
00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:56,800
citizen science projects that we've been

314
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:58,000
conducting at the university of

315
00:11:01,670 --> 00:11:00,000
arizona's lunar and planetary laboratory

316
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:01,680
that are directly related to near earth

317
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:03,839
asteroid research and i'd like to also

318
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:05,279
acknowledge um

319
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,120
rob bob mcmillan who's the head of space

320
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,959
watch and tim swindle who's the director

321
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:09,760
of the

322
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:10,880
lpl

323
00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:13,839
helping with this presentation

324
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,360
lpl has

325
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,360
mainly been uh at the forefront of

326
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,680
asteroid research since the 1960s a lot

327
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:21,360
of pioneering work on asteroid

328
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:22,959
photometry whether it's light curve

329
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:25,440
photometry phase function photometry

330
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,399
even uh colors for taxonomy were not

331
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:30,320
only uh conducted there but were

332
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:31,519
developed at

333
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:32,800
lpl

334
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,480
we were the first organization with the

335
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:36,160
space watch program to discover

336
00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:39,040
asteroids routinely with a ccd camera

337
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,399
before that everything was done with

338
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,640
photographic plates

339
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:45,040
first place to discover small neos on

340
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:47,600
the order of 10 meters or smaller

341
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:49,360
and the catalina sky survey which is

342
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,880
another near earth asteroid survey

343
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:52,880
similar space watch has basically been

344
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,880
the most effective and productive near

345
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:56,800
earth asteroids survey of more or less

346
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,519
the past 10 years and in fact the only

347
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:01,200
asteroid survey that's ever discovered

348
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:03,279
an asteroid before it hit the earth the

349
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:06,160
one that 2008 tc3 that hit the sudan

350
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,430
so lpl has been involved in three

351
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:13,600
projects one project which is currently

352
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,200
being developed right now is a

353
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,040
collaboration between the catalina sky

354
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,720
survey and planetary resources and

355
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:20,160
that's something crystal wiki will

356
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,440
actually talk about

357
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,200
later on during this session so i'll

358
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:25,360
concentrate on a past project which is

359
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:27,920
the space watch fast moving object

360
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:30,160
program as well as the osiris-rex target

361
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:32,480
asteroid characterization project

362
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:34,399
now as i said before space watch was a

363
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,680
group that used ccd cameras to discover

364
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:39,680
un previously unknown

365
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,040
asteroids whether they were near earth

366
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,760
asteroids whether they were main belters

367
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:45,920
type of belt objects even comets

368
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,959
it was conducted between 2003 and 2006

369
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:50,800
it was made possible to grant from the

370
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:53,120
paul g allen charitable foundation

371
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,040
and really what they were trying to do

372
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:57,279
is make up for the fact that most of the

373
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,120
current asteroid surveys are very

374
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,880
inefficient at discovering objects that

375
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:03,040
are moving extremely fast

376
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,480
mostly when you discover asteroids they

377
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:06,320
just look like stars that move over the

378
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,480
course of half an hour or so but if an

379
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,240
object is extremely close and even

380
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:11,760
though this is actually a

381
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:13,519
meteor in this picture

382
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,880
the asteroid will appear as a giant

383
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,240
streak

384
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,560
and the software has always been very

385
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,320
inefficient at detecting those streaks

386
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:22,480
and also one problem is there's a lot of

387
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:25,600
man-made artificial debris in orbit so

388
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,959
if you followed all of these streaks

389
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,480
you'd be wasting a lot of your time

390
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:29,680
following stuff that turned out not to

391
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,760
be an earth asteroid but the thinking

392
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,680
was as they were taking their data if

393
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:36,240
they made their data available online in

394
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,519
real time

395
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,760
amateurs could log in and could pick up

396
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,519
streaks that would be otherwise missed

397
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:43,519
by the software

398
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:44,720
and it turned out to be extremely

399
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:46,639
successful they had over 300 volunteers

400
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,639
over the lifetime of the program

401
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,160
on an average clear night they had about

402
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,480
35 to 40 people with volunteers would

403
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:54,480
log in and review images

404
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,440
it produced 43 confirmed discoveries

405
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:59,040
as well as recoveries of previously

406
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:00,399
known objects some of them were

407
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:01,760
artificial satellites and there were a

408
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,480
few that unfortunately got away

409
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,160
and most of the objects they found one

410
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:08,079
was as big as one kilometer and some

411
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,680
were down to tens of meters and they

412
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,440
moved about two to sixteen degrees per

413
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:13,440
day and most of them were

414
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,360
faster than eight degrees per day so

415
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:16,880
we're finding a lot of small fast

416
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:20,320
objects the software otherwise missed

417
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,120
there were some hard lessons learned

418
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,760
remember this is 2003 2004 is that kit

419
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,760
peak bandwidth was an issue so

420
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:30,000
unfortunately the volunteers weren't

421
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,120
looking at

422
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:33,600
the real raw fits data as it came off

423
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,040
the telescope they were looking at

424
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:37,199
compressed jpeg images if you know

425
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:39,440
anything about jpeg images they don't do

426
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:40,959
a great job with

427
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:44,000
linear features streaks so quite often

428
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,519
you know the amateurs at home would say

429
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:47,040
hey i got a streak

430
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:49,120
that the observer knew right away wasn't

431
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,199
this it wasn't an asteroid but the

432
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:52,800
observer at home had no way of knowing

433
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,079
that

434
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,760
they did have a good mentoring program

435
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,680
with online interactive training that

436
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,279
everyone had to take

437
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,120
but they found with time as more and

438
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,199
more people signed up people just

439
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:06,000
weren't paying attention to the training

440
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,360
and because there's a lot of things that

441
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,800
mimic streaks in the sky there's

442
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,880
diffraction spikes off stars there's

443
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,560
galaxies there's a lot of other things

444
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:13,920
going on there

445
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,360
and so it ended up being where they were

446
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,360
getting a thousand false alarms for

447
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:20,000
every real detection

448
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,079
and unlike most crowd sourcing like the

449
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:24,560
zuniverse that jen mentioned where you

450
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,839
could have people log in look at the

451
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,000
same galaxy and over the course of weeks

452
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:29,920
or months the signal and noise will rise

453
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,279
up and you go yes that's definitely

454
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,360
elliptical galaxy

455
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,680
these objects you had they basically had

456
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,680
to be discovered in real time you

457
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:39,040
couldn't wait

458
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:40,399
a week you couldn't even wait a day

459
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:41,839
because the object so close to the earth

460
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:44,320
it zoomed past and would be lost forever

461
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,759
shouldn't say forever but lost for a

462
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,120
long time

463
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,519
and so you had to react to every object

464
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,040
that was being flagged and when you have

465
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,800
a thousand false detections going back

466
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:54,480
to the observer who's at the telescope

467
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:56,000
who has to now keep up with this stuff

468
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,839
it became a really burdensome and after

469
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:59,360
a while it ultimately required three

470
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,880
full-time people working eight hours a

471
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:02,959
day on the program and the project kind

472
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:04,800
of collapsed under its own weight

473
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,279
so actual discovery especially a very

474
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,120
close small object especially the ones

475
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,279
that arm is interested in

476
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,360
you can't really crowd source

477
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:15,199
you can citizen science it but you can't

478
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,720
crowdsource which means stuff has to be

479
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,399
done in near real time

480
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:20,320
and you have to find a way to get that

481
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,829
now the project i'm currently involved

482
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:28,079
in at the osiris-rex mission which by

483
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,759
the way is a nasa funded new frontiers

484
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:31,519
mission run out of the university of

485
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,839
arizona with significant with also with

486
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:36,000
a lockheed martin and goddard space

487
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,279
flight center as well as significant

488
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,920
contributions from canada and other

489
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,920
scientists around the world will launch

490
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,160
in 2016 go to a near earth asteroid

491
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,880
named bennu around the 2018-2020 time

492
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:49,040
frame pick up samples from the surface

493
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,000
and return them back to earth in 2023

494
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:54,399
and one thing we wanted to do was find

495
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,279
out how could the average amateur help

496
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,959
increase our knowledge of the near earth

497
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:01,040
asteroid population and in particular

498
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:02,480
those objects

499
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,880
that are good destinations for future

500
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,439
robotic or human missions basically

501
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:10,000
objects are in orbit similar to earth

502
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,360
now yeah if we all had an eight meter

503
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,199
telescope in our backyard

504
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,679
with a spectrograph and a ccd and

505
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:17,199
thermal imaging camera we could learn

506
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,480
all we wanted to learn about these

507
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,400
objects but unfortunately it's hard to

508
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,839
get time on those big telescopes they're

509
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,600
far and few between and

510
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:25,120
surprise surprise

511
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:26,720
most astronomers don't care about

512
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:29,760
asteroids only a select few do

513
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,200
so the thinking was how could the

514
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,679
average amateur say with a c8 in their

515
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:36,400
backyard and a reasonably inexpensive

516
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:39,039
ccd camera how could they tell us more

517
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,400
about these objects that we could

518
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,840
otherwise learn

519
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,080
with the larger telescopes

520
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:46,080
and it turns out there is one thing you

521
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:47,440
can do

522
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,360
and that is observe the asteroid do

523
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:51,440
photometry at what we call different

524
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,039
phase angles now phase angle is the sun

525
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,000
asteroid observer angle okay

526
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,080
if you think of the moon zero degrees

527
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,679
phase angles full moon you're seeing the

528
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:03,840
entire face illuminated 90 degrees is

529
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:06,480
half moon 180 degrees is new moon

530
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,080
basically

531
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,840
and you get a slope and this is actual

532
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,520
data taken with the target asteroids

533
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,280
project most of this is from patrick

534
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,240
wiggins who's an amateur nasa ambassador

535
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,559
up in the utah area

536
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,799
and the slope of this line is directly

537
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,480
correlated with the albedo of the

538
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,320
asteroid

539
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:26,160
so by having this slope you have the

540
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:27,280
albedo

541
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:29,200
if you fit a model function you get the

542
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,720
absolute magnitude which is how bright

543
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:32,559
the asteroid would be at 0 degrees phase

544
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,200
angle and 1au from the earth and sun so

545
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:36,880
you normalize it

546
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,559
these two parameters together you get

547
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:40,080
the size

548
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:42,000
if you observe in different colors like

549
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,799
the traditional bvri or the new sloan

550
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,280
filters that astronomers use nowadays

551
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,880
you get the color of the object and

552
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,720
that's a direct i shouldn't say direct

553
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,640
but a pretty good correlation between

554
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,000
the colors of the object and its

555
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,400
taxonomy whether it's carbonaceous

556
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:58,000
whether it's a piece of vesta whether

557
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:01,440
it's an ordinary quadratic material

558
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,799
and the nice thing about this is you

559
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:04,880
don't need high precision photometry

560
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:06,880
which you do need for say light curves

561
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:08,559
where you probably need

562
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:10,160
a couple percent photometry to really

563
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,200
get a good light curve here 10 20 30 40

564
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,960
percent as long as enough people are

565
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,799
observing over enough phase angles you

566
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,960
can beat down the noise so you really

567
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,559
can't differentiate between dark

568
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,720
asteroids and light asteroids what their

569
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,360
sizes are and what their taxonomic

570
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:27,200
compositions are

571
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,640
and for light curves if they get bright

572
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:30,240
enough we ask people to do light curves

573
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,840
and of course i help out by going to the

574
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,440
bigger telescopes and kind of fill in

575
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,679
the gaps when the object's too faint or

576
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:37,200
get you know spectroscopy and stuff like

577
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,480
that so it really is a collaborative

578
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:40,720
effort

579
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,559
now some of the lessons learned first

580
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:45,360
one get the word out advertise advertise

581
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,559
advertise

582
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,160
i mean basically there's a market out

583
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,840
there and they're amateur astronomers

584
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,039
who have

585
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,640
telescopes with ccds and they're just

586
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,400
looking for something to do

587
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:58,400
so go out to the astronomy magazines go

588
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:00,400
to the astronomers astrology uh

589
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,520
astronomy societies and advertise

590
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:05,360
make strong partnerships

591
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:06,799
and we have partnerships with a bunch of

592
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:08,000
different groups so i'll provide

593
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,200
services

594
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,120
an important one is peter lake here who

595
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,039
works for itelescope.net

596
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:14,640
peter lake got uh

597
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:16,720
interested in citizen science because he

598
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:19,919
was part of the space watch fmo program

599
00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:21,120
it inspired him to go out and buy a

600
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,720
telescope which he then made part of the

601
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:25,760
itelscope.net network

602
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,760
and is now doing target asteroids stuff

603
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,280
and has actually been working classrooms

604
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:30,559
with students from australia and i've

605
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:32,400
had multiple times where i've actually

606
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,909
neo character rate characterization

607
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:39,840
requires a worldwide solution we have

608
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,799
184 partners from 28 american states and

609
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,120
30 countries but all around the world

610
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,799
but you notice there are some regions

611
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,799
that are lacking and a lot of this i

612
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,960
believe is a language barrier

613
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:52,640
you know we do a really good job of

614
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,880
producing english material

615
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,480
pretty good job at producing spanish

616
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:57,600
material

617
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,600
but there's a lot of observers in russia

618
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,679
china of course is up and coming japan

619
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:04,080
has always had astronomers but a lot of

620
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:05,919
them actually don't cross into the

621
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:08,720
english speaking astronomy societies

622
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,919
they have their own and that's some

623
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,360
place we need to go to

624
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:13,120
the middle east is developing a vibrant

625
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,960
middle class there's amateurs now coming

626
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:17,120
out of egypt and turkey and iran so

627
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,400
arabic is starting to become an

628
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:20,799
important language so we need to start

629
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,750
so to make citizen science more

630
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,440
productive based on our experience of

631
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:30,640
courses

632
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:33,039
material non-english languages

633
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:35,679
produce an online gui where amateurs can

634
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:38,400
upload their data directly and that gui

635
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,480
can then reduce their data producing

636
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,720
photometry and astrometry in a rigorous

637
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,480
standardized way and then that data

638
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,400
could be fed to programs like us or the

639
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,880
minor planet center

640
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,400
of course work with as many

641
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,080
non-for-profit and non-profit

642
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,070
convince non-asteroid astronomers to try

643
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:00,720
something different like asteroids

644
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,480
and even though we kind of get this idea

645
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,039
that citizen science is free because the

646
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:07,840
data is coming free the analysis isn't

647
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:10,799
you still have a lot of you know person

648
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:13,520
hours reducing the data

649
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:15,200
and so we found we need a lot of

650
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,880
different specialties are critical for

651
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:18,799
success where we need a manager we need

652
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:20,320
a scientist to handle stuff and then we

653
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,480
need the data reducers so it isn't

654
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:24,159
necessarily free

655
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,000
and of course citizen science organized

656
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:27,840
citizen science is not new it's been

657
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,080
going on for over 100 years especially

658
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,320
groups like the you know american

659
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,760
the association of american variable

660
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:35,760
star observers british astronomical

661
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:38,000
society so there's a lot of experience

662
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,360
and knowledge out there and we just need

663
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:41,760
to talk to them

664
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,950
questions from the room go ahead

665
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:52,640
and we have microphones so since we

666
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:53,919
don't have a microphone runner we're

667
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:55,120
going to ask you guys actually in room

668
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:56,320
to get up and go to a microphone if you

669
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,679
have a question

670
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:59,919
sorry about that

671
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:01,760
but for the ustream so everyone else can

672
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,960
hear your voice

673
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:05,120
the world is waiting

674
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,880
i was just wondering now who is paying

675
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:08,799
for you said you have to have the staff

676
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,039
you have to have a manager

677
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:13,520
who is paying for all that in this well

678
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,880
this project it's run out of the

679
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,039
osiris-rex program and it was run out of

680
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,440
our education and public outreach which

681
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,880
is now communications and public

682
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:23,200
engagement program

683
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:24,000
but

684
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,679
to be honest it's a lot of volunteer

685
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,000
time on our that we're doing as a

686
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,400
scientist and dolores hill who's working

687
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:32,240
from the education side so it's

688
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,080
university of arizona

689
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,000
has decided that this is important and

690
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:37,840
that they're

691
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,559
they're supplying the funds for the

692
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:43,200
the group to manage this activity yes i

693
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:45,039
agree

694
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,640
but there are things that unfortunately

695
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,080
we don't have support for like the

696
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:50,880
upgrades like producing online guise and

697
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,320
stuff which is something that the double

698
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,320
abso does where you can upload you shoot

699
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:56,480
a variable star you upload your data it

700
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:58,159
finds which stars are which it tells you

701
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,520
where the variable star is and it does

702
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,120
the photometry for you i mean there's a

703
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:03,279
little bit of manual interface there but

704
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:04,559
that's something we would really like

705
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,080
for astronomers and photometry of

706
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:11,029
other questions do we have any questions

707
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:13,520
from social media

708
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,400
i have not seen any questions come in on

709
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,720
twitter or streaming okay well i have um

710
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,039
one girl where other folks are thinking

711
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:23,919
so if today you are redoing um

712
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:26,240
spacewatch what what type of formats

713
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,240
file formats would be easier for

714
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:30,480
folks to actually not jpeg for folks to

715
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:31,919
actually be able to do the work that

716
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:33,039
you're asking them to do how would you

717
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:34,240
do it today

718
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,520
today i would actually just give them

719
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,400
access to the raw fits images

720
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:40,480
nowadays i mean fits browsers are pretty

721
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,440
common

722
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,679
um you know you just and you just give

723
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:45,279
them the data and let them blink

724
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:46,799
basically let them use the tools we're

725
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:49,600
using of course you can simplify it but

726
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,799
basically let them use the tools we're

727
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,400
using

728
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:54,960
so i'll question you okay go ahead um so

729
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,120
a question came in from ustream any

730
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,679
plans for a training program

731
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:01,120
yes

732
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:02,400
in fact

733
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,679
one of the groups if i go back

734
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:07,360
one of our partners isaac which is the

735
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:10,000
international astronomy

736
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:11,919
search collaboration

737
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,840
we actually run a program with them

738
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,200
where right now it's an asteroid

739
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,720
discovery program

740
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,400
where we advertise it in some of the

741
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,480
local some of the astronomy magazines

742
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,840
and some of the astronomy societies and

743
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,679
got 40 people to sign up where they

744
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:25,520
actually were taught how to discover

745
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,720
asteroids

746
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,400
on data that was taken with a one meter

747
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,440
telescope and the plan is to expand that

748
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,520
to where we'll get data that's taken of

749
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:35,200
our you know particular near earth

750
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,400
asteroids that require physical

751
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,799
observations and give people not only

752
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:40,640
the tools and the software but also the

753
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,080
training and how to actually reduce

754
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,760
their own data

755
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,120
and of course if you join the target

756
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:46,880
asteroid program

757
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,110
right here

758
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:53,919
we will mentor you

759
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,120
we have no problem helping i mean we

760
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,960
know most people you know this is their

761
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,480
first time and we all have to learn at

762
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:01,840
some point so we have no problem helping

763
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:05,120
a follow-up question uh real quickly

764
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:07,039
the

765
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:21,279
joining late

766
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:23,520
didn't seem to follow the training got

767
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,960
it for some reason i don't know if it's

768
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:26,400
because the really interested people

769
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,000
joined up first and then there was a

770
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:30,240
different subset of people joining up

771
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:32,400
later or they saw discoveries being made

772
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:35,679
so they jumped in so is there a way to

773
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:37,760
pull that apart and as you're talking

774
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,360
about adding training or making it

775
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,520
available so that that doesn't get

776
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,279
repeated or to

777
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:45,120
prevent that from happening again i mean

778
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,960
one thing you might have to do is

779
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,640
have a test

780
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:50,400
where you throw up stuff and you go okay

781
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,320
here's 20 objects which ones are the

782
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:53,760
real options you know which one are the

783
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,159
real asteroids and the ones who pass

784
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:58,080
move on and the ones that don't practice

785
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,269
turk approach so amazon does that and

786
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:04,880
we'll take two more questions steve and

787
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:06,080
then we'll take a second question from

788
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,960
the room and then we'll move on to the

789
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,400
next piece and at the end we'll have

790
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:10,240
discussion at the end if you guys want

791
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:12,400
to um put those questions down we can

792
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:13,840
make sure to have that conversation but

793
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:15,520
the talk that krista wiki is giving

794
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:17,120
later on in the session will actually

795
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,480
address

796
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,000
basically looking at the same problem

797
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,320
the space watch had using crowdsourcing

798
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:24,880
from a different angle

799
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,440
yeah i just wanted to extend on the what

800
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:30,480
worked and didn't work uh

801
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:32,320
is there any sort of curation of the

802
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:33,840
community that you're doing right like

803
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:36,000
do you run little sprints for

804
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,520
for you know tonight we're doing a

805
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,200
contest to see who can

806
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:41,279
find the most or

807
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,559
there's a lot in the model of

808
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,159
crowdsourcing that seems

809
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,120
that we can apply to this to really a

810
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,520
increase your crowd from tens to

811
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:51,520
hundreds and thousands and

812
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,360
two to increase the training right

813
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:55,120
there's just some best practices i think

814
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,960
in community curation that could start

815
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:58,320
to happen in some of these various

816
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:59,360
communities

817
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:00,720
yeah and that's kind of what's going on

818
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,559
when isaac's running their campaigns

819
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:04,159
their discovery campaigns they break

820
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,840
everyone up into uh

821
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,919
three-person groups right and though

822
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,679
there's no money being won they kind of

823
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,600
compete against each other sure and

824
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,080
there's a lot that's about

825
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,279
prize levels or or even just uh

826
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:19,520
little metals and whatnot that you get

827
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,039
that that are being used in a lot of

828
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,279
other communities that might be a nice

829
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:25,279
model but the thing that really helps is

830
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,760
just interacting with the volunteers i

831
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:29,440
mean let them know their data is

832
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,799
appreciated

833
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,640
tell them you know what to observe

834
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:34,080
tell them that their data was good which

835
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,679
it usually is and if it's not you tell

836
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:37,440
them how to improve it but

837
00:28:43,909 --> 00:28:39,039
basically let them know their data is

838
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:45,350
i know um

839
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:48,960
see some hackers use online gaming to

840
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:51,440
try and get around the to teach their

841
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:54,159
ais how to get around security protocols

842
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:56,000
because is it possible to use a similar

843
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,880
tactic to teach the ais how to better uh

844
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,720
better recognize the faster moving

845
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:02,000
objects

846
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,360
yes

847
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:05,039
and in fact i think crystal wiki's stuff

848
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:06,480
will go into a little more detail on the

849
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,840
project that is a little more along

850
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,960
those lines

851
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:09,840
right

852
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:18,149
and we should have tim on the phone tim

853
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:19,919
can you hear us

854
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:21,039
i can hear you

855
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:21,919
about me

856
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:24,240
yeah you're a little muffled um so if

857
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,760
you're on speakerphone take yourself off

858
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:28,320
a speakerphone but we can hear you

859
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,399
all right

860
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:31,919
how's that

861
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:34,080
it's great all right so we're gonna just

862
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:36,159
go ahead and put up your um uh

863
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:38,720
presentation we can see you now

864
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,919
you can go ahead and get started tim

865
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,760
all right well the working on

866
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:45,919
i'm not saying it's a way to change the

867
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:50,480
slides here let's take that move here

868
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,350
survey telescope

869
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:01,600
and i'm going to be sketching an idea

870
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,000
with actually very similar goals to the

871
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:06,159
project that you just heard about from

872
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,200
carl

873
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:09,600
but as you'll see it's uh it's

874
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:12,960
considerably further in the future

875
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:13,840
so

876
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,039
i want to begin with a quick overview of

877
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:19,360
lsst itself

878
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:20,399
um

879
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,200
it is a large synoptic survey telescope

880
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:25,520
it's going to be based in chile

881
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,279
and the notion is that it's a telescope

882
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:30,480
which

883
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,880
it scans the entire visible sky

884
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:40,960
every night that it can

885
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:43,760
so the telescope

886
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:45,760
as you'll see here

887
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,960
it's pretty big it's got an 8.4 meter

888
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,480
primary

889
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:52,640
the thing that's unusual about it is

890
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,679
that

891
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,520
in conjunction with this very large

892
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,080
primary it also has a huge field of view

893
00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:00,080
for a telescope like this so three and a

894
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,440
half degrees

895
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:03,360
diameter

896
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:05,279
and this it has a single instrument

897
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:09,039
which is a 3.2 billion pixel camera

898
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:12,399
and it takes images very fast it takes

899
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:13,519
um

900
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,240
pairs of 15 second exposures as quickly

901
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:18,720
as it can which means that

902
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,000
it moves on to the next field about

903
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:24,399
every 40 seconds

904
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:27,440
and it comes back and

905
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,320
covers the same bit of sky

906
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:32,640
sort of every couple of nights

907
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:35,600
so it just operates this way it scans

908
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:36,880
the sky

909
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,799
continuously eventually for 10 years

910
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:43,120
so part of the project which you'll as

911
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:44,640
you'll see

912
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,519
in a few minutes is that

913
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:49,600
it processes the data

914
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,919
and serves it both the scientists and

915
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:53,200
the public

916
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:57,279
and the data that it produces um covers

917
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,350
it sends out alerts on

918
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,360
events we'll call them which means

919
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:09,360
essentially anything that changes on the

920
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:10,960
sky this could be

921
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,080
a variable star changing in magnitude it

922
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:16,480
could be the appearance of an asteroid

923
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,200
and a field that we don't know about

924
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,600
it could be a supernova many other

925
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,279
things so it sends these out with very

926
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,600
short latency for

927
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:27,440
purposes of follow-up

928
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,519
so within 60 seconds of something like

929
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:31,679
this being detected it stands out as a

930
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,919
vo event and goes out over there over

931
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:35,600
the network

932
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:38,720
and then there is a very extensive

933
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,399
database catalog of all the objects

934
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:44,559
that it finds on the skies and what

935
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:47,519
their properties are so they've seen

936
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,399
magnitude shapes in the case of galaxies

937
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,240
light curves

938
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:54,880
um and then of course there are the

939
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:59,750
so one thing about

940
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,240
the lfst is that education and public

941
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,480
outreach epo is an integral part of the

942
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,320
project so it has been from the

943
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:07,679
beginning

944
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,440
and

945
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:11,840
so my role in the project at this point

946
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:15,600
is to be the kind of science guide for

947
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,279
uh what epo is is going to do

948
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:21,120
so the office key

949
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,320
is we hope just on the threshold of

950
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,320
beginning construction it's in this

951
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,039
year's uh president's budget

952
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:31,360
we all know that that's a bit short of a

953
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,480
guarantee of beginning construction but

954
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:36,320
there you go

955
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:39,840
so if things go as we hope they will

956
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:43,279
science operations will begin in 2022 so

957
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:46,080
we have some time to uh to get all this

958
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,549
so i've touched on this a little bit

959
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,960
already but i'll just emphasize that the

960
00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:59,279
lsst is a different kind of telescope

961
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,519
than you have probably in captured

962
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,720
before

963
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,120
um it really is an integrated survey

964
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:08,000
system rather than just a telescope so

965
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:10,639
the observatory the telescope the camera

966
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:13,119
the data management system are all built

967
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:15,119
to work together and are built really

968
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,040
for a single purpose to support this

969
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:19,359
lsst survey

970
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,240
and i should say that the survey itself

971
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:24,399
is designed to support many many

972
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:27,760
different science uh cases so

973
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:30,399
dark energy

974
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:32,399
galactic astronomy

975
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,079
there's there's a large number and of

976
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:37,040
course um solar system science which is

977
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:39,040
our interest here

978
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:41,520
so unlike the usual telescope there's no

979
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:44,560
pi mode there's no proposal there's no

980
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:46,480
getting time and going for the telescope

981
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,560
the thing is just the machine which runs

982
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:50,639
and produces data

983
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,240
so from the perspective of the

984
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:56,159
normal user

985
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,240
you don't really use the telescope to

986
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:00,640
use the database

987
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,359
and this is this is of course the spirit

988
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:06,160
that the storm survey has

989
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:07,040
has

990
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,230
okay so i think uh you've got the

991
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:16,720
message that lsst really is the database

992
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,630
so we see citizen science

993
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:26,800
and possibly thinking back to jen's

994
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:29,520
definitions and her intro

995
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:31,200
this definitely

996
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,079
should include crowdsourcing uh as well

997
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,320
as citizen science but we see both these

998
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,960
things as being integral to the overall

999
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:40,800
process of

1000
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,800
how lsst works

1001
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:44,880
so here's a cartoon that kind of shows

1002
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:47,680
you how this uh how this goes

1003
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,000
um if you think of this as the stream of

1004
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:53,440
all the data being collected by lsst

1005
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,400
uh you can say that there's some large

1006
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:59,119
fraction of the data which is basically

1007
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:01,599
understood so you know it's from such a

1008
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,440
variable going up and down we know what

1009
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:04,880
that is

1010
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,200
but there also are

1011
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,280
aspects of the data and i would very

1012
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,280
much include

1013
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,680
asteroid observations here

1014
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:15,680
as things that while they may be

1015
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:18,079
understood they also need human

1016
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:19,920
intervention largely because their

1017
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:22,320
algorithms are just not good enough to

1018
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,680
deal with them

1019
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:26,480
so here you have your citizen science

1020
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,480
scientist down here

1021
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,640
dealing in some way with this data that

1022
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:32,880
requires human intervention

1023
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,920
and

1024
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:35,680
this touches on a question that was

1025
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,000
asked a few moments ago one of the

1026
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:40,240
functions that we see to this is not

1027
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,359
just

1028
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,200
understanding the data that wasn't

1029
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:44,880
understood before

1030
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:46,400
but also

1031
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:49,839
as sort of a back channel training

1032
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:52,640
algorithm so that

1033
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:55,359
this process here will be more efficient

1034
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,950
so moving on to the the main subject

1035
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:03,760
here

1036
00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:06,800
how can we use citizen scientists for

1037
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:09,040
asteroid detection

1038
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:12,160
so that the the main problem here uh

1039
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:13,839
especially compared with something like

1040
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:16,400
space watch is just scale

1041
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:19,680
so the lsst every night will observe

1042
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:22,400
something like 1.1 million asteroids and

1043
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:25,040
this does not include false alarms

1044
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:25,920
um

1045
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,480
you'll recall that carl said with uh

1046
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:30,400
with their experiment with citizen

1047
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:31,920
scientists they were getting a thousand

1048
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,400
false alarms for every real detection

1049
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:36,079
we hope to do much better than that but

1050
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:37,359
it's certainly not going to be

1051
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,560
one-to-one so in any case you have

1052
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:42,400
millions of things to look at every

1053
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,079
night

1054
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:46,800
and personally i think that this is too

1055
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,920
many

1056
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:50,320
to have citizen science just look at

1057
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:51,920
every single

1058
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,800
uh bit of an image that may or may not

1059
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,400
have an asteroid

1060
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:58,560
and i think there's a very good prospect

1061
00:38:02,790 --> 00:37:59,839
that we can

1062
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:02,800
have algorithms that work very well at

1063
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:05,040
the pixel level so that we don't need to

1064
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:06,640
do that

1065
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:09,200
but the real problem comes in at higher

1066
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:10,240
levels

1067
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,400
um and they explain that i have to give

1068
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,640
you a little cartoon of how at least the

1069
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,800
ossp processes

1070
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,880
uh

1071
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,960
asteroids data

1072
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,079
so

1073
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:24,880
what we try to do is observe every field

1074
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:29,920
twice a night so you have a set of pairs

1075
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:32,960
and the software is quite good at

1076
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,440
linking the pairs together

1077
00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:37,920
to form what we call tracklist

1078
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,880
um and then if it's able to it can merge

1079
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:42,560
tackles from a single knight to make

1080
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:44,079
longer traffic

1081
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:47,680
but the real problem comes when you are

1082
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:50,320
um putting together you're linking

1083
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:53,119
together data that goes over more than

1084
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,560
one night

1085
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,800
and you know in this cartoon it actually

1086
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:58,320
looks like a pretty simple thing you

1087
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:00,800
cannot see obviously where the track is

1088
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:03,920
but remember that um there's millions of

1089
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,320
detection issues

1090
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,640
if you actually plot out the lsst

1091
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:10,320
detections over

1092
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,280
on several nights it is just an absolute

1093
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,440
chaotic mess and

1094
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:18,000
deciding which things go together to

1095
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,400
form a real asteroid track

1096
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,720
is not easy even for the best software

1097
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:25,040
that we that we can

1098
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:28,400
so inner citizen science um

1099
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:31,440
the important thing to know here is that

1100
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,599
the computational complexity of this

1101
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:35,520
track linking problem grows

1102
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,119
exponentially with the number of

1103
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:38,880
detections in an image and with the

1104
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:41,440
speed of their motion and you'll recall

1105
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,359
carl talking about objects that move

1106
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,359
very very fast and those of course are

1107
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:47,040
also the ones that we're most interested

1108
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,160
in

1109
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:50,079
so the more than there are the faster

1110
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,680
they move the harder this is

1111
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,160
computationally

1112
00:40:00,630 --> 00:39:56,800
so the current algorithms

1113
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,640
are actually very good at producing

1114
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:02,400
candidate tracks

1115
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,839
that are plausible by the correctnesses

1116
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:08,160
far from a shirt

1117
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:11,440
and once you reached that stage it's not

1118
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:14,800
clear how to do better algorithmically

1119
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:17,520
but it is pretty clear how to do better

1120
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:20,319
if you're a human sitting

1121
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,960
at a terminal in front of the data

1122
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:24,720
so there are a number of other

1123
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:26,720
information sources that a person can

1124
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,760
bring to air that are not so easy to do

1125
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:31,440
algorithmically

1126
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:34,640
so real orbital dynamics the algorithms

1127
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:36,960
that we use of just for computational

1128
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,040
necessity can't use for fully

1129
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,160
realistic orbital dynamics

1130
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,640
they don't know about the systematics of

1131
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:48,640
the solar system population so they

1132
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:51,280
can't say how plausible some

1133
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:52,960
track would be

1134
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,560
they don't currently look at light

1135
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,119
curves um which is which is one of the

1136
00:41:02,309 --> 00:40:59,280
most fruitful sources of saying is this

1137
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,319
a real tracker is it not because

1138
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,319
something's intensity

1139
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:06,880
changes between from night one to night

1140
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,520
two in some unrealistic way you know

1141
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,920
that's probably not a real trap

1142
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,280
and then finally of course their

1143
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:15,680
observations from other telescopes

1144
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:17,599
and with the sort of infrastructure

1145
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:19,920
which is being put together

1146
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:20,960
around

1147
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:23,440
vl events

1148
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:25,839
the ability to process observations from

1149
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,400
other telescopes is going to become an

1150
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,280
increasingly easy thing to do

1151
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,680
so i claim that with the right sort of

1152
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:35,680
tools it's going to be practical for

1153
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,599
citizen scientists to undertake this

1154
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:39,599
kind of analysis

1155
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:41,920
and by doing so they can greatly

1156
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:44,880
increase the efficiency of the entire

1157
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:47,440
manned machine system to protecting and

1158
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:50,880
cataloging any others

1159
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:54,560
so i just want to conclude with a few

1160
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,880
thoughts about what these tools might be

1161
00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:00,720
and i first want to point out that there

1162
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:03,440
is a very different application area

1163
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,160
called wide area motion imagery

1164
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,720
um which has many problems in common

1165
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:10,000
with ours

1166
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,839
and it's much better funded than we are

1167
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:13,839
because it's all essentially security

1168
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:17,440
based um or security security oriented

1169
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:19,040
and essentially the problem is you got a

1170
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:20,640
bunch of cameras looking at things that

1171
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:21,680
are moving

1172
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,240
and you want to be able to track objects

1173
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:26,960
um across them and i don't know i'm

1174
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:28,480
running out of time so i don't have a

1175
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:30,800
lot of time to go into what what that

1176
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:34,160
entails but i think the point is that

1177
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:35,760
they have a lot of tools that are under

1178
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,520
active development and we can learn a

1179
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:39,119
lot from them and they're very well

1180
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,480
funded for good with answers i think

1181
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,400
so the cartoon that's at least in my

1182
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:46,560
show is that when the citizen scientist

1183
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:50,319
sits down in front of lsst data

1184
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,200
that he or she will have a number of

1185
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,280
tools um

1186
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:57,119
at his disposal

1187
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,599
and this would include

1188
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,160
the ability to examine the images

1189
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,720
um the ability to look at light curves

1190
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:06,560
and the ability to interactively set

1191
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,160
orbit

1192
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:10,480
and so the role of citizen scientist is

1193
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,440
to use those tools to draw a conclusion

1194
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,200
about whether a candidate track is

1195
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:17,119
likely real or not

1196
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,640
so this is something which is clearly

1197
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:20,240
going to take a lot of training think

1198
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:22,720
about carl's talk again but i think it

1199
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:25,359
will be challenging and fun and will

1200
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:26,960
actually motivate

1201
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:29,920
real citizen scientists um as opposed to

1202
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,839
simply mouse clickers

1203
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:34,079
and i think i think it will be good for

1204
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:44,630
okay so we'll start with any questions

1205
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:46,160
from the room

1206
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:47,920
while heather's looking on social media

1207
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:53,910
okay i have one um tim are you guys

1208
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:55,920
considering doing some of the phase

1209
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,880
curve work as well that carl had

1210
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:00,720
mentioned or

1211
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,760
is that something that you guys

1212
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:03,359
evaluated and decided not to do because

1213
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,560
of the other projects you have lined up

1214
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:06,640
for citizen science

1215
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:09,520
no we've not really gotten into

1216
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:11,839
uh the details yet at all as i mentioned

1217
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:14,319
this is a sketch rather than a real plan

1218
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:17,200
so um i actually wasn't even aware of

1219
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,599
that uh way of processing the data i'm

1220
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,680
not a solar system that scientist

1221
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:23,599
to add so that's a very interesting

1222
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:25,040
thing it sounds like it was fitting

1223
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:30,710
data that you're going to be producing

1224
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,960
you'll have phase functions for

1225
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,119
every asteroid in the main belt most of

1226
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:37,119
the near-earth asteroids

1227
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:38,960
it'll greatly increase our knowledge of

1228
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,280
the sizes and albedos of these objects

1229
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,880
especially since even if you do go to a

1230
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:44,640
spitzer and get thermal infrared

1231
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,640
observations you still need to know the

1232
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:48,160
phase function and the absolute

1233
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:49,760
magnitude without that important data

1234
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:50,400
point

1235
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,240
the thermal observations really are kind

1236
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:54,319
of hamstrung so a plot you know doing

1237
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,240
phase function photometry with lsst

1238
00:45:02,630 --> 00:44:58,240
would be great

1239
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:03,750
so

1240
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,240
another question in the room go ahead

1241
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,560
how deep of magnitude does the telescope

1242
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:10,960
and sensor detect

1243
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,319
oh yeah good question i should have

1244
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,839
mentioned that so

1245
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:15,440
um

1246
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:16,880
single frame

1247
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:19,440
uh exposure has limiting magnitude of

1248
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:21,280
about 24.5

1249
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:23,440
so and of course most of the things that

1250
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,920
we detect will be close to that limiting

1251
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:27,359
magnitude so

1252
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:30,240
these are really tough to follow up with

1253
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:38,870
another question tim for me is

1254
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:39,920
what

1255
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:42,319
challenges do you think that building a

1256
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:44,480
citizen science program within a large

1257
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:47,119
survey like this face

1258
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:48,319
are they

1259
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,359
they capacity are what type of

1260
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:55,359
challenges are you designing your

1261
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:01,270
well at this point we're we're really

1262
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:04,640
trying to design um a platform which can

1263
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,800
support a wide variety of civic and

1264
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,920
sciences

1265
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:09,760
citizen science projects because of

1266
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:12,160
course we realize beginning operation in

1267
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,680
2022

1268
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,440
uh the problems that are interesting for

1269
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:17,680
citizen science span will be different

1270
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,359
than they are now so

1271
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,839
our big focus is on the architecture

1272
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:23,760
uh but certainly

1273
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:26,000
uh the challenges that we face i think

1274
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:27,920
are not unique to us in this field i

1275
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:29,839
think it's largely sociology i mean

1276
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:30,640
again

1277
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:33,200
listening to colonel's experiences with

1278
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:35,359
people being trained but not actually

1279
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:37,200
applying your training

1280
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:38,720
i think those are probably going to be

1281
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:41,680
the real challenges

1282
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:43,520
wise um

1283
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,760
we're certainly thinking hard about

1284
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,560
using the cloud as a way to

1285
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,640
give us the sort of elasticity that a

1286
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:52,160
project like this

1287
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,200
needs

1288
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:55,440
so again i think the sociology is

1289
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,520
probably the hardest

1290
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:59,040
okay great we have a question from

1291
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:00,640
social media

1292
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:02,480
the question that came in was how many

1293
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,150
um well i guess i see to be completely

1294
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:12,160
honest i i guess i would have to say

1295
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:13,680
that there are

1296
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:17,280
zero except that um if i go back to my

1297
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,800
listed tools here um

1298
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:22,480
wherever it wants i guess it is already

1299
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:23,280
there

1300
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,359
um something like you know image

1301
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:27,760
examiners unlike her viewers and orbit

1302
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:28,880
hitters

1303
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:31,599
um they all exist as tools it's just

1304
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:35,359
that we haven't yet integrated them into

1305
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,800
our epo uh prototype philly and that's

1306
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,920
sort of one of the things that we're

1307
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:41,280
going to be doing

1308
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,240
uh over the next few years

1309
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:46,480
and how small of objects are you going

1310
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:51,829
uh well you tell me i mean it's sort of

1311
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:53,920
lit it's magnitude limited for us so

1312
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:01,990
okay

1313
00:48:06,549 --> 00:48:04,630
any other questions in the room

1314
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,559
i think that we

1315
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:07,440
can

1316
00:48:13,470 --> 00:48:10,960
get sort of 80 of the way to

1317
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,480
a federally mandated

1318
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,160
140 meter diameter

1319
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:18,480
requirements that gives you

1320
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:24,710
okay great thanks jason yeah uh

1321
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,400
you've got an incredibly thoughtful uh

1322
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:30,079
plan laid out here

1323
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,960
with

1324
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:31,839
uh

1325
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,119
science ops not until 2022 as i recall

1326
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:39,520
how are you keeping this all together

1327
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:45,270
preparing for

1328
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:46,880
this incredible amount of data that's

1329
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:49,680
going to be coming

1330
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,000
yeah well excellent question um i of

1331
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,760
course should mention which you you

1332
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,839
probably are already aware of that we

1333
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,520
that we didn't actually begin this

1334
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,280
project thinking we would be on the sky

1335
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:01,280
in 2022 it just sort of you know

1336
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:02,960
developed that way

1337
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:05,839
so maintaining the momentum is always a

1338
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:08,880
challenge my my own hope is to begin

1339
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,400
prototyping a lot of this stuff as uh as

1340
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:14,160
soon as possible

1341
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,040
and trying it into

1342
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,119
a real data source which of course will

1343
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:21,520
not be as large or probably as deep as

1344
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,720
lssp but will still let us uh develop

1345
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:26,400
the tools and get our feet wet and

1346
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:28,240
understand what the real challenges are

1347
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,200
so

1348
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:31,040
i think prototyping is a large bit of

1349
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:33,280
the answer of how do you keep the

1350
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,069
um and i believe the next

1351
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:46,800
presenter ray picard

1352
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:48,640
should be on the phone ray are you there

1353
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:58,549
ray we can't hear you if you're on muted

1354
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:59,349
yeah

1355
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:01,599
sorry you were muted

1356
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:02,960
you didn't mute yourself hold on one

1357
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:09,510
okay ray we should be able to hear you

1358
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,040
now there we go great go ahead ray yeah

1359
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:14,960
okay i'm just waiting for my

1360
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,359
presentation to pop up there

1361
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:19,119
um i am having a little

1362
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:20,960
uh a few incident problems this morning

1363
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,480
there are thunderstorms around us and i

1364
00:50:25,829 --> 00:50:24,000
keep knocking out my internet every now

1365
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:25,839
and again so fingers crossed that we can

1366
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:31,589
oh yeah just waiting for my presentation

1367
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:38,470
so what i am talking about

1368
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:41,440
is actually um

1369
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:44,079
small grants for for observatories to be

1370
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,079
able to sort of participate

1371
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,160
and some of the ways at which we can

1372
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:50,319
involve the community

1373
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,640
in asteroid research

1374
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:54,400
and um

1375
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:56,400
get get them involved in in some of the

1376
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,119
searching and things like that

1377
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:01,760
which covers that first slide

1378
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:03,760
now a brief outline of the presentations

1379
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:06,720
a little bit about what we do here um

1380
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,040
answering the questions most of the

1381
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:11,280
um information for the paper i submitted

1382
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,480
were based on

1383
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:14,960
question 6 of the asteroid initiative in

1384
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:16,880
particular you're like addressing some

1385
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,480
of those things some other things i've

1386
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:20,240
put up there will actually change in

1387
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,000
this presentation because even over the

1388
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,720
past few few days

1389
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,480
things have really moved ahead so far

1390
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:28,240
what we're doing here with um the

1391
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,069
um obviously he's been very keen to do

1392
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:36,559
astro research for many years it's

1393
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:38,480
actually a smooth privately operated

1394
00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:40,079
observatory

1395
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:42,240
funded pretty much

1396
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,280
by donation only entry the occasional

1397
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:47,359
small grant for equipment but his

1398
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:51,119
primary role is for public outreach and

1399
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:52,480
education

1400
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:54,880
i'm an educator myself

1401
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,440
i teach in schools and that when i can

1402
00:52:01,829 --> 00:52:00,000
um and our primarily primarily our

1403
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:01,839
research goal and what i'm probably best

1404
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:05,359
known for is my work on meteorites um

1405
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,280
research work on asteroids and comets as

1406
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,359
well as an imaging program we have to

1407
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,680
stimulate public interest and things

1408
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:13,839
up there in space as well

1409
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:21,349
now the question is as i said most of my

1410
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,200
response is based on question six for

1411
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:25,280
the asteroid initiative and in

1412
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,720
particular some of the things i wanted

1413
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,400
to emphasize from that paper is the

1414
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:30,160
importance of the dual hemisphere

1415
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,079
coverage most of the asteroid searches

1416
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:34,240
are located in the northern hemisphere

1417
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:35,839
where asteroids can approach from any

1418
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:38,400
direction so therefore we need some sort

1419
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,119
of

1420
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,960
coordinated approach to cover both

1421
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,800
hemispheres

1422
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:44,319
and in particular

1423
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,240
i know that there's a vast amount of

1424
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:48,160
equipment out there in amateur hands as

1425
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,599
well as some of the professional hands

1426
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:51,200
which will be able to

1427
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,240
help in um such adventure

1428
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:56,960
um particularly so far as yeah i know

1429
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,200
i've captured a few small asteroids on

1430
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:00,960
images and not known whether or not

1431
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,880
they've been asteroids and finally that

1432
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,960
methodology of being able to check those

1433
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:06,640
fairly easily

1434
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:08,559
most of that sort of observational stuff

1435
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:11,359
i covered in my first talk in the first

1436
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:13,839
conference a few weeks ago about the

1437
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,599
methodologies and things like that so

1438
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:17,599
i'm very interested in the target

1439
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,760
asteroid um project which was talked

1440
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:21,599
about a bit earlier on

1441
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:23,359
um because i feel that that was

1442
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:25,280
something that um

1443
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:28,480
we could probably link into particularly

1444
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,680
in light of

1445
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:31,359
our negotiations with the university

1446
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,069
now grant now because international

1447
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,920
rules don't allow monetary grants which

1448
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:43,440
is probably a good thing to other

1449
00:53:47,589 --> 00:53:45,280
countries what i'm thinking about when i

1450
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:47,599
talk about grants is actually grades of

1451
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:50,960
equipment i know um target asteroid use

1452
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,440
a plane wave telescope and i've actually

1453
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:55,359
been inquiring about the cost of some of

1454
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:56,880
those so that um

1455
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:59,119
equipment can be light shared around the

1456
00:54:01,190 --> 00:54:00,319
world

1457
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,200
um

1458
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:03,359
if we spread telescopes thrown right

1459
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:04,960
right across the globe it ends up being

1460
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:06,880
a much cheaper option than

1461
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:09,280
space-based telescopes

1462
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,000
we have tried in the past to establish

1463
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:14,400
an asteroid search telescope here

1464
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:18,960
we had a commercial enterprise fund a

1465
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:21,760
half metre dalker from telescope

1466
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:24,400
and that telescope was constructed but

1467
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,480
due to the global financial crisis the

1468
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:28,240
last payment on that telescope was

1469
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,680
unable to be made

1470
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,160
that telescope still to this day some

1471
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:35,040
four years later resides in a crate

1472
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:38,079
down in sydney still uninstalled unused

1473
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:40,559
and waiting to arrive at some point

1474
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,160
now we do try and attract crowds but

1475
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,480
being privately operated in a fairly

1476
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:46,160
small facility

1477
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:48,240
generally commercial enterprises aren't

1478
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,960
particularly interested in

1479
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:52,720
giving us grants because you know they

1480
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:54,960
don't see the value for money i guess in

1481
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:56,799
in funding a small facility they don't

1482
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:59,119
really get their um advertising dollars

1483
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:00,960
i guess from saying that we sponsor such

1484
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:03,680
a thing so most of our grads are being

1485
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,680
straight and federal government grants

1486
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:07,599
but um

1487
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,599
in particular what we feel is that a

1488
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:11,760
little bit of opportunity a lot so far

1489
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:12,480
is

1490
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,240
the the research work and that that we

1491
00:55:17,349 --> 00:55:16,400
could do

1492
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:17,359
now

1493
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:19,599
involving the community

1494
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:22,799
operating on a donation basis means that

1495
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:25,040
i access as many

1496
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,640
general public to the observatory as we

1497
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,440
can get as well as school children being

1498
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,119
an educator one of the things i do is

1499
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,520
write educational programs for students

1500
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:35,520
and i've just actually worked on one

1501
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:36,720
that's going to be used throughout new

1502
00:55:40,789 --> 00:55:38,480
south wales on space and i've actually

1503
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,799
included asteroids in that

1504
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:42,079
um

1505
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:43,680
as i mentioned earlier the dual

1506
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:45,040
hemisphere coverage and one of the

1507
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:47,040
things i'd like to set up is to have a

1508
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,119
telescope internet accessible because

1509
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:51,520
what was nice in australia day in us

1510
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,559
schools

1511
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,559
so that um if there's any actual work to

1512
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:56,079
be done there's a possibility of being

1513
00:56:01,829 --> 00:55:58,319
able to link it to the us schools in

1514
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:01,839
that respect and perhaps if we can form

1515
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:05,119
a partnership with a u.s based telescope

1516
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:06,880
a reciprocal arrangement could be done

1517
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:07,920
there

1518
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,319
um as i mentioned earlier i do a lot of

1519
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:12,720
my work on meteorites and this sort of

1520
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,960
work strongly links to the meteorite

1521
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,559
work what i do in classification of

1522
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:18,720
meteorites so the asteroid work and

1523
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,280
moonlight's going to link together

1524
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:23,119
as i mentioned earlier we've actually

1525
00:56:27,270 --> 00:56:25,040
during the break between conferences

1526
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:27,280
we've actually started networking and

1527
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:29,920
have ended talks with the university of

1528
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,559
new zealand university of canada over in

1529
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:33,680
new zealand

1530
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:36,559
um to try and do a joint proposal and um

1531
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:39,839
a joint effort in researching memory

1532
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:41,680
sort of asteroids

1533
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:42,799
one of the things we're going to be

1534
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:58,710
we've discovered too many but a lot of

1535
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,520
that follow-up work i think is an area

1536
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,520
where amateurs can't fit in another

1537
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,599
thing we're doing is um tomorrow i have

1538
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,200
a conference here in bathurst with the

1539
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:09,440
community talking about asteroids and

1540
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,359
the threat they pose so we're out there

1541
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:13,839
doing our public outreach already

1542
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:16,559
um so talk on that

1543
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,599
tomorrow

1544
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:19,680
what can be done in the short term

1545
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:21,599
um one of the things i think is needed

1546
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,789
observations that can be done something

1547
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:36,960
published either by texting the phones

1548
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,599
or email alerts or something like that

1549
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:41,839
um one of the things i am worried about

1550
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:44,240
is the momentum after saying after this

1551
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:46,799
conference that maybe momentum dies out

1552
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:49,359
and that um everything falls apart at

1553
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:50,720
the end of this conference so i really

1554
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,400
want to make sure that after this

1555
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,799
conference in particular these networks

1556
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:56,640
and momentum keeps going and

1557
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,040
communication all that continues

1558
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:01,599
um one of the places i think where you

1559
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:03,680
know places like myself can actually

1560
00:58:07,589 --> 00:58:05,839
help is in the

1561
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:07,599
pilot studies particularly for larger

1562
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:09,839
ones testing some of the things like if

1563
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,160
you create an image or a set of images

1564
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,079
how quickly can people pick up whether a

1565
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:16,160
streak is an asteroid or not so being

1566
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:17,839
able to be used for that and some of

1567
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,640
that will require training

1568
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,040
if uh particularly amateurs

1569
00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:25,359
in order to know what they're looking at

1570
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:27,359
and i think that's an area where

1571
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:29,599
not only grants for equipment and that

1572
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:31,359
can help or

1573
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,510
and my point there is that yeah neos are

1574
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,280
just a threat to one nation it's

1575
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:43,760
actually a worldwide threat so some of

1576
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:45,920
the benefits that i can see particularly

1577
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:47,119
towards our

1578
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,680
facility is the media exposure the media

1579
00:58:53,670 --> 00:58:51,839
here are frantically trying to get an

1580
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:53,680
interview with me about this nasa

1581
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:56,000
conference and the asteroid talk i'm

1582
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,440
doing tomorrow

1583
00:59:02,549 --> 00:58:59,680
um being able to test some of these

1584
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,559
systems before they go ahead the

1585
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,720
extension for our public awareness and

1586
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:07,200
educational program and in particular

1587
00:59:11,030 --> 00:59:08,559
the way i want to try and link in

1588
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:11,040
schools into

1589
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,150
so far as the technology and

1590
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:18,000
communication systems now i think if we

1591
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,799
can establish a network of like

1592
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:22,559
systems around the world which is like

1593
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:24,079
why we're looking into a plane live

1594
00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:25,520
telescope

1595
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,079
that um the technology and systems are

1596
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:30,319
like around the world so it simplifies

1597
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,839
the software if we want to do internet

1598
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:34,240
connections and things like that as well

1599
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,520
and like i say

1600
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:38,319
closely linked in with the work that i

1601
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:40,559
do on meteorites

1602
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,349
so finally um i'm happy to send a copy

1603
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,520
since this was a very brief overview of

1604
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:52,319
the paper uh before anyone wanting them

1605
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:53,119
um

1606
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,000
i'm always open to suggestions and

1607
00:59:59,910 --> 00:59:57,920
comments and things like that my email

1608
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,920
address is up there and there's a

1609
01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:01,680
facebook page for the observatory where

1610
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:03,440
we post some of our images which

1611
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:05,119
includes some of the images of neos and

1612
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:11,349
thank you i'm open to questions thank

1613
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:20,789
i'll start us with the first question

1614
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:24,319
in general ray what do you think

1615
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:27,119
could be done in general to start

1616
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:29,520
building more of a community of

1617
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,280
observers and amateurs in the southern

1618
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,119
hemisphere in general

1619
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:35,280
we saw earlier in

1620
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:36,559
carl's presentation that there are

1621
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:39,200
significant kind of gaps in coverage in

1622
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:40,720
that part of the globe and for your

1623
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:42,079
country specifically and maybe some of

1624
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:43,440
the other countries that you've

1625
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:45,200
initiated collaboration with like new

1626
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:47,839
zealand um what might be the unique kind

1627
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,799
of cultural or education uh things to to

1628
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:52,000
take in to

1629
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:53,680
to take in mind to to recruit more

1630
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:56,880
observers from that area of the world

1631
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:59,760
well we've actually started um contacted

1632
01:01:04,069 --> 01:01:01,119
the both the state and federal

1633
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,079
governments and outlined the proposal um

1634
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:05,839
pretty much as i did

1635
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:08,400
in the papers to the conference and had

1636
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,760
meetings with federal members and

1637
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:11,440
everyone quite keen

1638
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:14,240
about um particularly maybe offering

1639
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:17,200
some funding towards the project

1640
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,799
um and i think to

1641
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:20,160
letting the public

1642
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:22,799
be aware like um say the the russian

1643
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:25,280
fire ball over chelyabinsk earlier this

1644
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,079
year

1645
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:28,079
it happened so remotely from australia

1646
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:30,079
we haven't had a significant meteorite

1647
01:01:35,670 --> 01:01:33,520
fall since about 1969 here and i think

1648
01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:35,680
it's it's way out of the public mind so

1649
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:36,839
actually

1650
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:39,440
establishing um

1651
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:41,680
some of these public education programs

1652
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:43,200
and getting out there amongst the people

1653
01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:44,640
letting them know

1654
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,640
what's happening so they can support it

1655
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:48,960
and particularly for say us it's a

1656
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,440
fairly cheap option to do that we're

1657
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:53,520
looking at um

1658
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,640
probably needed maybe 25 000 which the

1659
01:02:01,750 --> 01:01:58,880
federal government said is peanuts i'm

1660
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:01,760
glad it's been much for them um

1661
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:03,760
to establish what would probably be a

1662
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:06,400
very good follow-up size telescope here

1663
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,520
so

1664
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,200
i think if we can get that support in

1665
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:11,359
that you know by the government and just

1666
01:02:15,029 --> 01:02:12,960
letting the general public know i think

1667
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:15,039
particularly the nasa brand if we said

1668
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:18,240
we're involved with a nasa partnership

1669
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:19,760
here in bathurst that would really

1670
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,839
stimulate public interest particularly

1671
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,440
regionally here

1672
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,520
um and i think that would also stimulate

1673
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:27,599
other grants from you know energy

1674
01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:29,680
companies and communication companies

1675
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:31,599
and things like that if they could see

1676
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:34,799
that their money was being spent on a

1677
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:37,039
research project that had a nasa tag

1678
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,200
attached to it i think that

1679
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:41,680
that is where um i think it could go

1680
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:43,280
anything to do with nasa the public's

1681
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:47,910
great question in the room carl

1682
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,359
all right this is carl horton rother

1683
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:50,880
it's good to talk to another target

1684
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:52,400
astroider

1685
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:53,359
have you

1686
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:58,000
shoemaker grant

1687
01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:00,720
um one of the difficulties i do have is

1688
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:03,200
being privately funded and even though

1689
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:05,200
we operate on a donation

1690
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,559
basis is that it makes me exempt from a

1691
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:10,079
lot of grades i haven't tried any

1692
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:11,760
overseas grants i'm really trying to

1693
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:14,480
sort of seek australian sponsorship but

1694
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,200
no i haven't haven't sought one of those

1695
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:18,799
um one of the things i'm looking for is

1696
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:19,760
actually

1697
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,000
uh biting the board and setting setting

1698
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:23,920
the observatory up as a

1699
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:26,559
stand-alone educational

1700
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,119
entity i guess charity as such where

1701
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:31,039
i'll step back from it

1702
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:33,119
and um basically

1703
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:35,359
gift my stuff to the observatory in

1704
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:37,280
trust and run it that way which will

1705
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:38,799
actually aid me in grants but i haven't

1706
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,960
sought any overseas once no yeah just

1707
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:42,240
for those people who aren't aware of the

1708
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:44,000
shoemaker grant is a program that's run

1709
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:46,079
through the planetary society and it's

1710
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:48,880
completely private and it's for amateurs

1711
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:51,599
or even small universities to apply for

1712
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,720
mba

1713
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:54,480
grants on the order five ten fifteen

1714
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:55,839
thousand dollars to upgrade their

1715
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,280
telescope to support near near-earth

1716
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,119
asteroid research so right i would

1717
01:04:02,950 --> 01:04:01,039
actually suggest look into it i think

1718
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:02,960
the proposals are due in the spring and

1719
01:04:06,309 --> 01:04:04,319
it's something where you could might be

1720
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:06,319
able to get some money some seed money

1721
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:08,160
to help upgrades

1722
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:10,720
i'll be very much i'll very much inquire

1723
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:16,870
as much as we can

1724
01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:18,069
do we have any questions from social

1725
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:20,400
media

1726
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,319
um so rare i have another one for you

1727
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:26,640
how well do you feel plugged into the

1728
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:27,599
global

1729
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:29,599
reporting community so when your

1730
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:31,200
observatory makes

1731
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:33,039
observations on asteroids do you guys

1732
01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:36,480
report them into the minor planet center

1733
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:39,200
um i gotta admit that uh one thing i did

1734
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:41,839
talk about in my previous conferences we

1735
01:04:46,870 --> 01:04:44,400
do actually feel fairly remote here

1736
01:04:49,670 --> 01:04:46,880
and i i have to but the minor plummet

1737
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:49,680
center is um almost

1738
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,920
i'll use the word frightening i guess to

1739
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:54,079
use from an amateur point of view for

1740
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:54,960
that

1741
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:59,359
yourself as a serious research place and

1742
01:05:03,510 --> 01:05:00,880
if you make a false

1743
01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:03,520
submission that um

1744
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:06,559
how that might look upon you we do feel

1745
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:07,520
um

1746
01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:08,480
i guess

1747
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:10,240
somewhat disconnected from the world

1748
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:13,440
community in that way but hopefully by

1749
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,200
establishing links and conferences like

1750
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:17,280
this where we can network and that i'm

1751
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:18,880
sure some of those barriers will be

1752
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:21,359
broken down and particularly the two

1753
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:23,599
follow-up observations if i find

1754
01:05:27,750 --> 01:05:26,079
something to be able to um send that off

1755
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:27,760
to to someone in another part of the

1756
01:05:30,710 --> 01:05:29,119
world where it's night time if i'm

1757
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:30,720
reviewing the data during the morning so

1758
01:05:35,109 --> 01:05:33,200
can you check out this please um i think

1759
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:35,119
that will that's going to benefit us

1760
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:36,880
more in the long term

1761
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,960
oh it's carl again yeah the minor planet

1762
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,799
center is a pretty frightening place but

1763
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,240
you'll find that they're actually not

1764
01:05:46,069 --> 01:05:44,640
that scary and uh jose galachi who's

1765
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:46,079
going to be talking later on is the

1766
01:05:50,470 --> 01:05:47,920
person to talk to they'll definitely

1767
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:50,480
help you with your observations

1768
01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:53,520
yes you know i'm encouraged that i will

1769
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:56,640
be submitting more of those of um

1770
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:58,640
targets and that we do find because one

1771
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:01,200
of the things that i hope to do is

1772
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:02,799
here particularly with our education

1773
01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:04,559
program programmers get kids involved in

1774
01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:06,160
searching for asteroids and searching

1775
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,319
for supernovas and

1776
01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:10,400
we can either do that in a targeted way

1777
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:11,359
where

1778
01:06:15,349 --> 01:06:13,599
we can actually search for the asteroids

1779
01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:15,359
themselves or hopefully

1780
01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:17,680
have them turn up as random objects when

1781
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,599
we're imaging other things we might be

1782
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:21,920
imaging a galaxy and an asteroid turns

1783
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:23,039
up in there

1784
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:24,160
um

1785
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,880
and

1786
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:26,640
to encourage students in that to be able

1787
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:28,160
to report their files from that as well

1788
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:29,920
so they're some of the things that

1789
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,880
we're hoping to do great thank you very

1790
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:34,640
much ray

1791
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:40,950
all right and uh before we turn it over

1792
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:43,599
to peter which i believe he has a video

1793
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,200
for the first part

1794
01:06:50,789 --> 01:06:47,760
of his presentation i just want to give

1795
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:50,799
30 seconds on um

1796
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:52,559
kind of the flow of the presentations

1797
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:54,559
that that we're hearing today so we

1798
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:56,960
started off a bit with um

1799
01:07:00,309 --> 01:06:58,640
with and you'll notice most of the

1800
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,319
discussion today is around is about

1801
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:02,880
ground-based observations and using

1802
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:05,039
ground-based observations to try to

1803
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:07,599
increase our knowledge of uh the

1804
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:09,680
asteroid population the neo population

1805
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:11,760
there's also significant space based

1806
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:13,280
observation

1807
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:15,920
tools that are in discussion um and some

1808
01:07:20,630 --> 01:07:18,400
have already occurred like the neowise

1809
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:20,640
survey that was uh done by nasa so

1810
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:22,400
there's also space-based observation and

1811
01:07:27,190 --> 01:07:24,079
data from those observations that might

1812
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:27,200
be crowdsourced um as well but

1813
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:29,359
there's either the ability for citizen

1814
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:31,039
scientists to physically take new

1815
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,559
measurements either using their own

1816
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:34,799
equipment in their backyard or renting

1817
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:36,960
equipment from people like slu or

1818
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:39,760
itelescope or going to like ray was

1819
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,039
talking about going to their local

1820
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,280
observatory and partnering with a mentor

1821
01:07:47,589 --> 01:07:46,000
scientist like carl and actually getting

1822
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:47,599
walked through a big observatory how

1823
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:48,960
they can actually take some measurements

1824
01:07:52,950 --> 01:07:51,280
off off a big telescope so there are

1825
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,960
those folks that can actually take new

1826
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,640
observations and contribute those to the

1827
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:56,640
data set but then there's also and we'll

1828
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:58,960
hear later about more of these ideas

1829
01:08:01,910 --> 01:08:00,319
there's also then with all that data

1830
01:08:04,950 --> 01:08:01,920
that we do have how do we more

1831
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:04,960
effectively mine that data both for

1832
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,000
algorithms and machine learning and also

1833
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:10,559
to extract new information from that

1834
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:12,160
from that data through citizen science

1835
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:13,200
in that way as well so you don't

1836
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:15,119
necessarily have to own equipment as an

1837
01:08:18,870 --> 01:08:16,080
amateur

1838
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:18,880
to participate which leads us

1839
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,880
into peter barrett who is an amateur

1840
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:22,560
astronomer himself

1841
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:24,960
who wasn't taking uh measurements with

1842
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:27,440
his own equipment but uh instead was uh

1843
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:30,000
using uh existing data to try to hunt

1844
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,080
for um comets actually um we'll hear

1845
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,480
more about uh his experience um in the

1846
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,960
video that we're about to show we will

1847
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:38,799
take a break after this it's not written

1848
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:40,880
on the agenda but we will take a break

1849
01:08:44,789 --> 01:08:43,600
after this uh this presentation for uh

1850
01:08:47,349 --> 01:08:44,799
ten minutes then we'll come back and

1851
01:08:49,269 --> 01:08:47,359
we'll do the final four uh before we

1852
01:08:51,430 --> 01:08:49,279
take another break and then we enter uh

1853
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:51,440
into the group discussion so just to

1854
01:08:56,950 --> 01:08:54,159
give us a pulse check on where we're at

1855
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:56,960
um and with that uh peter are you do we

1856
01:09:03,510 --> 01:08:59,759
have peter on the phone

1857
01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:05,749
yeah okay

1858
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:06,480
okay

1859
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:08,080
all right so um peter while we're

1860
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,319
playing your video if you could call in

1861
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:12,480
so that we can make sure that folks can

1862
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:14,239
have an opportunity to ask you questions

1863
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,349
hello everyone and a warm welcome from

1864
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,960
melbourne australia

1865
01:09:42,630 --> 01:09:39,120
my name is peter barrett and i'm an

1866
01:09:45,189 --> 01:09:42,640
amateur radio operator podcaster and

1867
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,199
citizen scientist

1868
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:47,279
first let me thank nasa for this

1869
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,199
opportunity to present my submission to

1870
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:51,279
this forum and also to the other forum

1871
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:53,040
participants who gave some useful

1872
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,520
feedback in a google hangout we had a

1873
01:09:59,750 --> 01:09:57,120
few days ago

1874
01:10:02,310 --> 01:09:59,760
i've refined my proposal slightly in

1875
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,320
light of those comments

1876
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:04,880
my proposal is drawn from my experience

1877
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,520
with another citizen science initiative

1878
01:10:13,510 --> 01:10:10,080
called the sun gracer website which is

1879
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:13,520
funded by nasa and esa i'd like to take

1880
01:10:17,590 --> 01:10:15,920
a moment to explain how that program

1881
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:17,600
works

1882
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,239
for the past 17 years the soho

1883
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:22,960
spacecraft has been taking photographs

1884
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:25,760
of the region immediately around the sun

1885
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:28,960
where sun grazer comets fly by

1886
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:31,199
the the sungrazer website makes these

1887
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:33,280
photographs available for download to

1888
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,000
the general public it also provides a

1889
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:39,120
suite of comet hunting tools and a

1890
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:42,320
comprehensive comet hunting guide

1891
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:45,199
participants including children can

1892
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:46,400
register

1893
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:48,960
download images and then examine a

1894
01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:52,000
series of photographs to look for a dot

1895
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:54,719
moving in a straight line and at a

1896
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:56,640
constant speed

1897
01:11:02,070 --> 01:10:59,280
if they find such a dot and it's clearly

1898
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:02,080
not a star or a known planet they can

1899
01:11:06,550 --> 01:11:04,080
record the object's coordinates in a

1900
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:06,560
series of images and then fill out an

1901
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:10,000
online comment reporting form

1902
01:11:16,390 --> 01:11:12,880
that report is then checked by the soho

1903
01:11:19,270 --> 01:11:16,400
site webmaster mr sungraser

1904
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,280
the first person to find and report an

1905
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,840
unknown comment gets credit as its

1906
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:23,679
discoverer

1907
01:11:29,669 --> 01:11:26,400
it's a great program and to date around

1908
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:29,679
100 citizen scientists and enthusiasts

1909
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:33,120
including myself have reported in excess

1910
01:11:37,910 --> 01:11:34,480
of 2

1911
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:37,920
500 confirmed comments

1912
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:40,960
now it's really easy to spot a comet

1913
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:44,800
but it wasn't until may 2013 after four

1914
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:47,600
years on and off that i was able to be

1915
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:50,719
credited as the discoverer of the comet

1916
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,080
the reason

1917
01:11:58,229 --> 01:11:54,640
the cameras aboard the soho spacecraft

1918
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:58,239
only take around 240 photographs a day

1919
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:00,880
and a new comet only comes along every

1920
01:12:05,189 --> 01:12:02,560
couple of days

1921
01:12:06,830 --> 01:12:05,199
so competition to be the first to report

1922
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:06,840
a comet is

1923
01:12:10,870 --> 01:12:08,800
intense

1924
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:10,880
one personal disappointment i had about

1925
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,199
the program was the fact that comet

1926
01:12:17,110 --> 01:12:15,199
discoverers don't get to name their

1927
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:17,120
comets because the international

1928
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:19,840
astronomical union has a rule that says

1929
01:12:26,550 --> 01:12:22,239
that discoveries made using space-based

1930
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:26,560
telescopes get named after the telescope

1931
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,040
however this rule does not apply to

1932
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,199
discoveries made using ground-based

1933
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:33,600
telescopes and that's an important point

1934
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:36,000
to note when designing an asteroid

1935
01:12:41,189 --> 01:12:38,800
identification program

1936
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:41,199
it's clear that the sungrazer program is

1937
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,159
a proven success and my submission is

1938
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:46,320
that nasa would create a citizen science

1939
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:49,679
program to find asteroids based upon the

1940
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,679
sun grazer program

1941
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,239
in my proposal nasa would have a large

1942
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,400
fleet of ground-based telescopes

1943
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,800
scanning the areas of the sky that are

1944
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:00,800
not currently being scanned by current

1945
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:02,560
sky surveys

1946
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:04,640
it could then provide the photographs

1947
01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:07,840
online in a special website along with

1948
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:10,560
an asteroid hunting guide some software

1949
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:13,920
tools and a reporting form

1950
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,080
the big difference though is that now

1951
01:13:21,030 --> 01:13:18,320
the first person to identify and report

1952
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:21,040
an asteroid would not only be credited

1953
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:23,600
as the discoverer but would also get to

1954
01:13:30,310 --> 01:13:27,600
propose a name to the iau for the object

1955
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:30,320
this would truly be a revolution in

1956
01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:33,199
astronomy and citizen science

1957
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:36,560
citizen scientists enthusiasts and most

1958
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:38,960
importantly children would have the

1959
01:13:44,070 --> 01:13:42,159
opportunity to discover a celestial body

1960
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,080
and name it

1961
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:46,640
no longer would these benefits be the

1962
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:48,960
exclusive preserve of professional

1963
01:13:55,189 --> 01:13:51,600
astronomers and those amateurs who can

1964
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:55,199
afford expensive telescopes

1965
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:57,520
the participation of children in this

1966
01:14:03,590 --> 01:14:01,199
program is very important how better to

1967
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:03,600
encourage children to study maths and

1968
01:14:08,149 --> 01:14:06,000
science than to get them to use their

1969
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:08,159
maths and science skills in a practical

1970
01:14:12,070 --> 01:14:09,199
setting

1971
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:12,080
and reward them with the ability to name

1972
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:14,640
a patch of the night sky

1973
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:17,199
i think that the opportunity to name a

1974
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:19,520
celestial object would be a great

1975
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,400
motivator for citizen scientists

1976
01:14:26,310 --> 01:14:24,239
when i tell people about my comet

1977
01:14:29,830 --> 01:14:26,320
discovery their first question is

1978
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:29,840
usually what did you call it

1979
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:31,520
i'll be keen to look at the public

1980
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,480
feedback on twitter and elsewhere to see

1981
01:14:38,790 --> 01:14:36,640
the public's opinion as to whether they

1982
01:14:41,430 --> 01:14:38,800
think that the opportunity to name a

1983
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:41,440
celestial object is important or not to

1984
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:43,199
them

1985
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:46,080
now concerns were raised about people

1986
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:48,800
who might try to cheat the system

1987
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:51,679
for example by the use of multiple

1988
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:53,280
accounts

1989
01:14:58,070 --> 01:14:56,000
i've given this some thought and i think

1990
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,080
that that concern can be addressed

1991
01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:00,880
through a range of measures

1992
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:03,760
first there needs to be lots of images

1993
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:07,440
made available to everyone each day

1994
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:10,400
even hundreds of thousands of sequences

1995
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:14,320
of images if possible so that any one

1996
01:15:20,790 --> 01:15:17,760
person could not review them all

1997
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:20,800
next each individual would be limited to

1998
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:23,679
one asteroid discovery only during the

1999
01:15:28,070 --> 01:15:25,600
life of the program

2000
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:28,080
one exception to this rule could be that

2001
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:30,560
you could be credited as a discoverer of

2002
01:15:36,229 --> 01:15:33,760
another asteroid only if the images are

2003
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:36,239
older than one month

2004
01:15:40,470 --> 01:15:38,159
this would mean that the asteroid

2005
01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:40,480
discoveries would be shared around to as

2006
01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:42,400
many people as possible

2007
01:15:47,110 --> 01:15:44,719
whilst people who have found an object

2008
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:47,120
previously would still have a chance to

2009
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:52,719
find another asteroid in archival images

2010
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:55,360
had such a system been used on the soho

2011
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:58,000
website there would have been at least

2012
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:00,239
two thousand five hundred separate

2013
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:03,679
discoverers not one hundred

2014
01:16:09,030 --> 01:16:06,480
there could also be an additional rule

2015
01:16:10,229 --> 01:16:09,040
that says that anyone who tries to cheat

2016
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:10,239
the system

2017
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:11,120
by

2018
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:13,360
signing up for multiple accounts

2019
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:15,840
or using false names

2020
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:17,840
would have any and all of their

2021
01:16:23,830 --> 01:16:21,120
discoveries annulled if caught

2022
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:23,840
each discovery would instead be credited

2023
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:28,239
to the next person to report it

2024
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:31,280
each asteroid report could first be peer

2025
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:34,080
reviewed by other citizen scientist

2026
01:16:37,990 --> 01:16:36,000
volunteers

2027
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:38,000
where the majority view is that the

2028
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:41,280
asteroid is a real undiscovered object

2029
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:43,440
the report would then go on to the

2030
01:16:48,870 --> 01:16:46,320
asteroid initiative webmaster who would

2031
01:16:51,189 --> 01:16:48,880
schedule further observations

2032
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:51,199
confirm that the object is a new

2033
01:16:56,229 --> 01:16:53,360
undiscovered asteroid

2034
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:56,239
calculate its orbital attributes and

2035
01:17:01,510 --> 01:16:58,800
then submit all this information along

2036
01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:01,520
with the discoverer's proposed name to

2037
01:17:06,390 --> 01:17:03,600
the iau

2038
01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:06,400
this system minimizes the number of paid

2039
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:08,560
staff that are needed to administer the

2040
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:16,550
now we come to the final question what

2041
01:17:24,070 --> 01:17:19,760
do we call the asteroid initiative

2042
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:24,080
it needs a name and perhaps an acronym

2043
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:26,400
thanks for listening to my presentation

2044
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:35,110
what if

2045
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:37,760
anyone

2046
01:17:44,709 --> 01:17:41,280
even a 12 year old child

2047
01:17:47,830 --> 01:17:44,719
with their parents permission

2048
01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:47,840
could go online

2049
01:17:56,070 --> 01:17:52,480
participate in a citizen science program

2050
01:18:00,149 --> 01:17:56,080
find an asteroid

2051
01:18:01,430 --> 01:18:00,159
be credited as its discoverer

2052
01:18:04,310 --> 01:18:01,440
and

2053
01:18:06,950 --> 01:18:04,320
get to name it

2054
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:06,960
what a life-changing experience

2055
01:18:18,390 --> 01:18:15,430
well now there's an australian proposal

2056
01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:18,400
for just such a program

2057
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:21,280
i nectarine

2058
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:23,360
the initiative

2059
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:26,560
for near-earth comet tracking

2060
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:30,560
asteroid risk identification

2061
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:31,360
and

2062
01:18:36,870 --> 01:18:34,560
novice education

2063
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:36,880
and who better

2064
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:39,760
to take you to the stars

2065
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:41,840
than the people

2066
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:47,990
nasa

2067
01:18:54,310 --> 01:18:50,719
lots of telescopes

2068
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:54,320
taking lots of photographs

2069
01:18:58,870 --> 01:18:57,120
of the night sky

2070
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:58,880
made available

2071
01:19:04,630 --> 01:19:00,880
through the internet

2072
01:19:06,830 --> 01:19:04,640
for everyone to study

2073
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,840
to find undiscovered

2074
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,400
objects

2075
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:11,280
that might one day

2076
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:16,070
so

2077
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:18,800
don't be surprised

2078
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:19,600
if

2079
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:21,280
one day

2080
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:23,600
a 12 year old child

2081
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,400
with their parents permission

2082
01:19:47,270 --> 01:19:28,560
saves the world

2083
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:49,669
hello everyone and a warm welcome from

2084
01:19:53,430 --> 01:19:51,280
melbourne australia

2085
01:19:56,950 --> 01:19:53,440
my name is peter barrett and i'm an

2086
01:19:59,510 --> 01:19:56,960
amateur radio operator podcaster and

2087
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,520
citizen scientist

2088
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:01,600
first let me thank nasa for this

2089
01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:03,520
opportunity to present my submission to

2090
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:05,600
this forum and also to the other forum

2091
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:07,360
participants who gave some useful

2092
01:20:11,510 --> 01:20:09,600
feedback in a google hangout quite

2093
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:11,520
talented and

2094
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:13,840
also i had a friend in

2095
01:20:17,430 --> 01:20:14,960
france

2096
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:17,440
faisa who gave me a few suggestions so i

2097
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,679
just want to acknowledge her input as

2098
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:21,520
well well great job on the video

2099
01:20:25,830 --> 01:20:23,120
everyone in the room was loving that so

2100
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:25,840
we really enjoyed it thank you um so

2101
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,600
with that um we'll go ahead and turn it

2102
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:29,280
over to questions

2103
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:32,000
that we have uh for peter in response to

2104
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:32,960
his

2105
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:36,800
um so

2106
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:39,199
i uh peter i can start um with a

2107
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:42,480
question um you mentioned a kind of a

2108
01:20:48,310 --> 01:20:45,199
tool kit that you thought would be uh

2109
01:20:50,870 --> 01:20:48,320
useful for a nasa asteroid hunter type

2110
01:20:53,350 --> 01:20:50,880
of activity similar to the comet hunting

2111
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:53,360
activity that included some basic

2112
01:20:56,550 --> 01:20:54,480
training

2113
01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:56,560
the images themselves

2114
01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:57,280
and

2115
01:21:01,590 --> 01:20:59,440
the reporting form

2116
01:21:03,669 --> 01:21:01,600
i was curious what you as an amateur

2117
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:03,679
astronomer what what are the tools the

2118
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:05,520
minimum tools that you think that that

2119
01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:07,760
you need in order to be able to uh

2120
01:21:12,550 --> 01:21:10,800
contribute to a program like that

2121
01:21:14,950 --> 01:21:12,560
uh well first of all basically what

2122
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:14,960
they've got on the sunday society is a

2123
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:17,679
very good uh

2124
01:21:21,669 --> 01:21:19,840
example of what's needed first of all

2125
01:21:24,390 --> 01:21:21,679
you need a general guide

2126
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:24,400
that uh actually

2127
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,920
sets out

2128
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:26,880
what

2129
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:31,360
series of photographs there are rules

2130
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:33,840
that run along the lines of looking for

2131
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:36,960
a dot moving at a constant speed

2132
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:40,080
with generally a constant brightness

2133
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:43,120
in a straight line and uh a lot of

2134
01:21:47,270 --> 01:21:45,280
first-time

2135
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:47,280
amateur astronomers run into problems

2136
01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:48,800
there because they

2137
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,760
you know that they sort of have a um

2138
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:53,760
they find a series of dots but it might

2139
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:56,239
go across then down the runway it

2140
01:22:00,149 --> 01:21:57,920
doesn't actually satisfy all those

2141
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:00,159
criteria and unless you don't actually

2142
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:02,560
satisfy those criteria it's unlikely to

2143
01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:04,400
be a common so

2144
01:22:08,149 --> 01:22:06,560
that's where first of all going to

2145
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:08,159
educate

2146
01:22:13,350 --> 01:22:11,040
the amateur astronomer is a good start

2147
01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:13,360
but then uh you can have a number of

2148
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:16,080
further tools for example where you

2149
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:18,800
entered a series of coordinates and your

2150
01:22:23,270 --> 01:22:20,960
computer checks to see that it is in

2151
01:22:26,310 --> 01:22:23,280
fact going in the straight line

2152
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:26,320
and perhaps uh you know if

2153
01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:29,199
he can analyze the images looks for the

2154
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:31,199
changes in brightness and if they vary

2155
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:33,040
too much it might

2156
01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:35,040
say look you know

2157
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:37,280
this is probably not a comment um

2158
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:39,600
absolutely i think the best the best way

2159
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:42,480
to uh um to actually

2160
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:44,719
to check it is to actually get other and

2161
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:47,760
amateur astronomers to actually check

2162
01:22:51,990 --> 01:22:50,159
a submission that somebody's put in okay

2163
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:52,000
because they can then give feedback and

2164
01:22:57,510 --> 01:22:54,719
educate um you know the more experienced

2165
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:57,520
amateur astronomers can uh educate the

2166
01:23:01,990 --> 01:22:59,920
the newer members as to yeah you know

2167
01:23:03,510 --> 01:23:02,000
you're not you're making a mistake here

2168
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:03,520
or here

2169
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:06,480
great another question um we often say

2170
01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:08,159
in the prize world and in the

2171
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:10,320
crowdsourcing world that you motivate

2172
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:12,480
people to participate in your activities

2173
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:14,880
um because of one of four g's

2174
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:18,400
gold guts good or glory

2175
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:21,600
and um i i wonder from your perspective

2176
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:22,960
when you look at the

2177
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:25,040
you obviously yourself you're motivated

2178
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:26,880
to participate and do this in your free

2179
01:23:33,350 --> 01:23:30,000
time for your own reasons but i wonder

2180
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:33,360
um if uh there's going to a comment

2181
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:36,320
earlier that came in from steve about

2182
01:23:40,709 --> 01:23:38,639
whether or not there's more community

2183
01:23:43,030 --> 01:23:40,719
building activities or kind of amateur

2184
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:43,040
to amateur connections that might be

2185
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:44,880
also another incentive that would get

2186
01:23:49,189 --> 01:23:47,199
more people involved kind of pulling on

2187
01:23:50,709 --> 01:23:49,199
that thread about what incentivizes

2188
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:50,719
amateurs other than being able to name

2189
01:23:53,910 --> 01:23:52,480
it if there's anything other than being

2190
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:53,920
able to name it that's actually the

2191
01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:56,400
stuff that causes people to spend their

2192
01:24:02,550 --> 01:23:59,040
lonely nights

2193
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:02,560
looking at asteroids as carl would say

2194
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:05,120
um i think that probably uh the sense of

2195
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:09,040
community does help um i actually have a

2196
01:24:13,110 --> 01:24:11,920
a similar experience but not in the

2197
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:13,120
astronomer

2198
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:16,719
area i recently participated in mit's

2199
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:20,159
edx program where they're actually

2200
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:21,840
making

2201
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:22,960
what's it

2202
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:25,760
a number of the units free available for

2203
01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:27,600
people to study

2204
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:30,000
online and they have a whole social

2205
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:31,600
networking

2206
01:24:35,830 --> 01:24:33,520
background so you can basically work

2207
01:24:37,830 --> 01:24:35,840
with other students and socially network

2208
01:24:38,709 --> 01:24:37,840
as you're studying through the unit

2209
01:24:40,229 --> 01:24:38,719
and

2210
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:40,239
that whole experience the social

2211
01:24:44,310 --> 01:24:42,880
networking side of it i actually found

2212
01:24:47,030 --> 01:24:44,320
really really good and you know

2213
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:47,040
transferring that over into the uh

2214
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:49,679
the astrology space um you know if there

2215
01:24:54,310 --> 01:24:51,920
was a community there and there is to a

2216
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,320
certain extent with the sunglasses site

2217
01:24:59,669 --> 01:24:56,400
but if there was uh perhaps a um some

2218
01:25:01,590 --> 01:24:59,679
really good uh social media tools there

2219
01:25:03,430 --> 01:25:01,600
i think that that really does encourage

2220
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:03,440
the whole process

2221
01:25:07,590 --> 01:25:04,800
great i think we have time for one more

2222
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:07,600
to two questions yeah um i really really

2223
01:25:13,669 --> 01:25:10,239
loved uh the video and you obviously

2224
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:13,679
have a very talented daughter

2225
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:15,840
one of the thoughts that occurred to me

2226
01:25:19,910 --> 01:25:18,320
is that the number of asteroids to be

2227
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:19,920
discovered

2228
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:23,280
there's a finite number and so

2229
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:26,320
it are have you thought of other ways

2230
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:29,440
the naming is obviously the holy grail

2231
01:25:33,910 --> 01:25:32,080
of of motivators it seems

2232
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:33,920
but are there other ways that you've

2233
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:37,600
considered to keep people engaged

2234
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,600
you stayed at it for quite some time

2235
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:41,520
till you were able to find one and and

2236
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:43,360
then didn't get to name it

2237
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:45,040
but one of the things i think we might

2238
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:48,400
discuss a bit tomorrow is badging

2239
01:25:53,189 --> 01:25:51,199
have you thought of other mechanisms

2240
01:25:54,870 --> 01:25:53,199
beyond just the naming of the asteroid

2241
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:54,880
that might help people

2242
01:25:59,110 --> 01:25:57,440
uh stay connected and enthusiastic with

2243
01:26:01,590 --> 01:25:59,120
this work

2244
01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:01,600
well you can always offer prizes i mean

2245
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:04,000
if you if you're playing with the um of

2246
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:06,080
the astronomy space

2247
01:26:11,189 --> 01:26:08,000
and you've got people that are um

2248
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:11,199
perhaps new to astronomy then perhaps uh

2249
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:12,960
offering them um

2250
01:26:17,669 --> 01:26:15,360
you know a chance to win a telescope

2251
01:26:19,910 --> 01:26:17,679
logically would uh be something that is

2252
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:19,920
going to be them that whole experience

2253
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:21,600
and take them further

2254
01:26:28,629 --> 01:26:26,629
great thank you peter for joining us we

2255
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:28,639
appreciate it i know it's late there so

2256
01:26:32,709 --> 01:26:31,280
thank you very much for uh joining us

2257
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:32,719
oh it's early

2258
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:40,229
all right well thank you peter very very

2259
01:26:46,070 --> 01:26:44,560
much for joining us um uh with that

2260
01:26:47,590 --> 01:26:46,080
okay so there was a comment online that

2261
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:47,600
we'll take real quick and then we'll uh

2262
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,400
we'll we'll take a break go ahead so the

2263
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:53,040
comment was it would indeed be nice to

2264
01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:55,280
be associated by our names the celestial

2265
01:26:59,110 --> 01:26:57,199
object we may discover

2266
01:27:01,430 --> 01:26:59,120
yeah so i had tweeted out peter your

2267
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:01,440
question i wonder what social media will

2268
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:03,520
say about being able to name

2269
01:27:07,110 --> 01:27:05,760
uh asteroids it seems like we got

2270
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:07,120
a couple responses to it already we'll

2271
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:09,199
see if more coming in um you can find

2272
01:27:14,149 --> 01:27:10,400
you can follow that on the asteroid

2273
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:14,159
grand challenge asteroid gc twitter

2274
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:15,520
so with that um we'll go ahead and take

2275
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:17,120
a break for 10 minutes so if everyone

2276
01:27:22,550 --> 01:27:20,000
could come back at 3 10

2277
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:22,560
um am i in the right time zone yes 3 10

2278
01:27:25,750 --> 01:27:23,440
then

2279
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:25,760
we will get started with jose from the

2280
01:38:34,629 --> 01:27:27,760
minor planet center at that time at 3

2281
01:38:37,270 --> 01:38:35,590
yes

2282
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:37,280
okay

2283
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:38,960
all right um so jose we're gonna go

2284
01:38:44,870 --> 01:38:41,440
ahead and get uh started in the second

2285
01:38:49,430 --> 01:38:44,880
sec uh section here of uh speakers

2286
01:38:50,950 --> 01:38:49,440
we have a lot of focus on crowdsourcing

2287
01:38:52,870 --> 01:38:50,960
this afternoon

2288
01:38:54,550 --> 01:38:52,880
as well as

2289
01:38:57,189 --> 01:38:54,560
a presentation by the minor planet

2290
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:57,199
center which is largely the hub for most

2291
01:39:00,790 --> 01:38:58,960
of the observations that are coming in

2292
01:39:04,149 --> 01:39:00,800
globally for new uh new asteroid

2293
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:04,159
observations out of the um out of uh out

2294
01:39:09,109 --> 01:39:06,400
of harvard so um we will have or the

2295
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:09,119
smithsonian astrophysical observatory so

2296
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,400
next up is jose and jose if you uh will

2297
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:13,840
run us through your presentation in 10

2298
01:39:17,910 --> 01:39:15,679
minutes and then we'll have about 10

2299
01:39:20,149 --> 01:39:17,920
minutes for discussion and q a for uh

2300
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:20,159
your particular set of ideas in response

2301
01:39:23,590 --> 01:39:22,320
to the rfi

2302
01:39:26,229 --> 01:39:23,600
okay

2303
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:26,239
so i think my webcam just went off i

2304
01:39:36,709 --> 01:39:27,840
don't know if you guys can see me but i

2305
01:39:36,719 --> 01:39:43,669
can you hear me jen

2306
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:45,910
yes jose we can hear you

2307
01:39:49,750 --> 01:39:48,400
okay let me get started then

2308
01:39:52,709 --> 01:39:49,760
so i am

2309
01:39:55,510 --> 01:39:52,719
i am from the scary minor planet center

2310
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:55,520
as we called it um hopefully

2311
01:39:59,350 --> 01:39:58,080
i'm not that scary so let me quickly go

2312
01:40:01,830 --> 01:39:59,360
through

2313
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:01,840
uh what the minor planet center does

2314
01:40:08,070 --> 01:40:05,040
let me get this slide up

2315
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:08,080
uh so

2316
01:40:11,109 --> 01:40:09,360
you can see here that we've been called

2317
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:11,119
the nerve center asteroid detection in

2318
01:40:14,629 --> 01:40:12,480
our solar system

2319
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,639
and i think it was a bbc who said that

2320
01:40:18,870 --> 01:40:16,239
in one of their documentaries and it

2321
01:40:19,669 --> 01:40:18,880
certainly i think explains what it is we

2322
01:40:20,550 --> 01:40:19,679
do

2323
01:40:22,470 --> 01:40:20,560
so

2324
01:40:24,070 --> 01:40:22,480
uh let me go through this complicated

2325
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:24,080
looking diagram but it's not that

2326
01:40:27,830 --> 01:40:25,600
complicated i promise

2327
01:40:29,669 --> 01:40:27,840
so let's start off with the surveys uh

2328
01:40:32,310 --> 01:40:29,679
top left hand corner

2329
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:32,320
and they survey the night sky and

2330
01:40:35,510 --> 01:40:33,840
they're the guys responsible for

2331
01:40:38,550 --> 01:40:35,520
discovering almost every near earth

2332
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:38,560
asteroid right now so once they discover

2333
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:39,840
all they think they may have discovered

2334
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:41,920
a new asteroid near asteroid they will

2335
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:44,400
send the data to us to the npc here in

2336
01:40:47,270 --> 01:40:45,520
the center

2337
01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:47,280
and we will

2338
01:40:50,709 --> 01:40:48,560
try to get

2339
01:40:53,510 --> 01:40:50,719
a preliminary orbit which is not very

2340
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:53,520
accurate but it's good enough and we put

2341
01:40:56,790 --> 01:40:54,560
it out in the nearest object

2342
01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:56,800
confirmation page which is checked by

2343
01:41:01,109 --> 01:40:59,440
surveys and amateur astronomers and as a

2344
01:41:04,149 --> 01:41:01,119
place where we say here are these new

2345
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:04,159
objects that we believe asteroids and

2346
01:41:07,510 --> 01:41:05,679
some of them are most likely nearest

2347
01:41:08,390 --> 01:41:07,520
asteroids can you guys go and confirm

2348
01:41:10,229 --> 01:41:08,400
this

2349
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,239
so astronomers around the world

2350
01:41:15,590 --> 01:41:13,040
check this out this list every night and

2351
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:15,600
go and observe them then they send us in

2352
01:41:20,790 --> 01:41:18,800
the data we get new observations and in

2353
01:41:21,990 --> 01:41:20,800
some cases we

2354
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:22,000
figure out that this is a nearest

2355
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:23,280
asteroid in other cases it's just a

2356
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:26,239
normal main belt asteroid either way

2357
01:41:33,109 --> 01:41:29,840
this makes it into our mpc database and

2358
01:41:35,189 --> 01:41:33,119
this data is then absorbed by for

2359
01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:35,199
example nasa jpl or

2360
01:41:39,669 --> 01:41:37,600
italian system neodis who do their own

2361
01:41:41,109 --> 01:41:39,679
processing with these observations

2362
01:41:43,109 --> 01:41:41,119
other people

2363
01:41:45,189 --> 01:41:43,119
also download it for their own use and

2364
01:41:47,830 --> 01:41:45,199
of course we then announce the new

2365
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:47,840
objects through social media and

2366
01:42:00,070 --> 01:41:56,790
so the three most used services that the

2367
01:42:01,350 --> 01:42:00,080
npc provides to observers are what's new

2368
01:42:03,510 --> 01:42:01,360
which is the

2369
01:42:05,669 --> 01:42:03,520
neo confirmation page i just explained

2370
01:42:07,830 --> 01:42:05,679
then what's visible tonight where you

2371
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:07,840
can put in

2372
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:09,679
the information of where you are and

2373
01:42:14,470 --> 01:42:11,280
we'll tell you what asteroids are

2374
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:14,480
visible nearest and not

2375
01:42:19,669 --> 01:42:17,440
and then the third service is

2376
01:42:20,790 --> 01:42:19,679
let me see

2377
01:42:22,390 --> 01:42:20,800
where should i point my telescope

2378
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:22,400
obviously we can tell you what's up but

2379
01:42:27,030 --> 01:42:24,719
you need to know where to look

2380
01:42:29,109 --> 01:42:27,040
and you can put in a number of objects

2381
01:42:30,870 --> 01:42:29,119
or just one object your location and

2382
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:30,880
will tell you exactly where in the sky

2383
01:42:36,870 --> 01:42:32,960
you need to point your telescope

2384
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:39,270
now the data we get

2385
01:42:44,070 --> 01:42:41,280
this is information for 2012 so we

2386
01:42:47,270 --> 01:42:44,080
received almost 8.7 million observations

2387
01:42:51,030 --> 01:42:47,280
from telescopes around the world uh

2388
01:42:52,390 --> 01:42:51,040
observers almost 300 observers in 46

2389
01:42:53,750 --> 01:42:52,400
countries

2390
01:42:56,629 --> 01:42:53,760
and

2391
01:42:59,510 --> 01:42:56,639
just like carl's map we can see here

2392
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:59,520
that there are dearest observatories in

2393
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:01,520
africa and asia

2394
01:43:05,590 --> 01:43:03,760
now the difference with carl's map is

2395
01:43:07,430 --> 01:43:05,600
that we do actually have quite an active

2396
01:43:09,590 --> 01:43:07,440
community in japan and i think i'm

2397
01:43:12,629 --> 01:43:09,600
seeing six observatories there that were

2398
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,639
active in 2012 but i think this shows

2399
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:14,400
that there's certainly a lot of work

2400
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:15,600
that we can do in trying to get

2401
01:43:21,830 --> 01:43:18,480
observers from africa and asia to join

2402
01:43:24,629 --> 01:43:23,430
now looking at the

2403
01:43:26,470 --> 01:43:24,639
pro-am

2404
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:26,480
nearest asteroid observation statistic

2405
01:43:30,709 --> 01:43:29,280
says this is for a 21-month period more

2406
01:43:32,390 --> 01:43:30,719
or less

2407
01:43:34,629 --> 01:43:32,400
we can see hopefully you guys can see

2408
01:43:36,070 --> 01:43:34,639
the numbers but more or less

2409
01:43:38,950 --> 01:43:36,080
as far as observations go about

2410
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:38,960
two-thirds are made by professionals

2411
01:43:41,830 --> 01:43:40,320
however if we look at the number of

2412
01:43:43,669 --> 01:43:41,840
telescopes

2413
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:43,679
uh then we see that about two-thirds of

2414
01:43:48,790 --> 01:43:46,400
the telescopes are amateur so

2415
01:43:51,270 --> 01:43:48,800
the the numbers uh skewed towards the

2416
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:51,280
amateurs for numbers of people that are

2417
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:53,760
looking at near-earth asteroids but

2418
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:55,760
obviously the professionals which mostly

2419
01:44:01,590 --> 01:43:59,280
the surveys are much more efficient

2420
01:44:03,510 --> 01:44:01,600
and if we look at the discovery rate we

2421
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:03,520
see a little sliver there which you

2422
01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:05,520
might just be able to make out

2423
01:44:09,750 --> 01:44:07,840
uh which is three nea's discovered

2424
01:44:11,510 --> 01:44:09,760
during this period by amateurs versus

2425
01:44:13,669 --> 01:44:11,520
1670

2426
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:13,679
for professionals so most of the

2427
01:44:18,550 --> 01:44:15,840
observations that we get are actually

2428
01:44:22,629 --> 01:44:18,560
follow-up observations where amateurs

2429
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:25,510
so one of the ideas that i've been

2430
01:44:30,629 --> 01:44:27,280
thrown around and which was my

2431
01:44:31,990 --> 01:44:30,639
rfi response was that of creating

2432
01:44:34,470 --> 01:44:32,000
the lack of a better name nearest

2433
01:44:35,910 --> 01:44:34,480
asteroid like curved core

2434
01:44:38,310 --> 01:44:35,920
and

2435
01:44:41,030 --> 01:44:38,320
attracting amateurs to take

2436
01:44:43,430 --> 01:44:41,040
lycos of near-earth asteroids and it

2437
01:44:44,310 --> 01:44:43,440
seems like the npc would be

2438
01:44:46,550 --> 01:44:44,320
the

2439
01:44:48,470 --> 01:44:46,560
best place to organize this from or to

2440
01:44:51,430 --> 01:44:48,480
be a node for this

2441
01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:51,440
because we are the people who announce

2442
01:44:57,189 --> 01:44:54,080
new discoveries uh because of through

2443
01:44:59,350 --> 01:44:57,199
the iau we're allowed to designate them

2444
01:45:01,430 --> 01:44:59,360
so once we have

2445
01:45:03,109 --> 01:45:01,440
a new discovery or even before if it's

2446
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:03,119
on the neo confirmation page we could

2447
01:45:07,270 --> 01:45:04,960
alert the network of observers around

2448
01:45:09,030 --> 01:45:07,280
the world and um have taken limiting

2449
01:45:11,350 --> 01:45:09,040
this map to add a whole bunch of new

2450
01:45:12,390 --> 01:45:11,360
dots in africa and asia

2451
01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:12,400
and

2452
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:14,320
we could alert observers that are able

2453
01:45:18,390 --> 01:45:16,320
to see these particular near-earth

2454
01:45:20,229 --> 01:45:18,400
asteroids from their location and with

2455
01:45:22,550 --> 01:45:20,239
the equipment that they have

2456
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:22,560
they would produce the light curves send

2457
01:45:27,430 --> 01:45:25,280
them back to the npc and from there

2458
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:27,440
they'd be made available and the mpc

2459
01:45:33,030 --> 01:45:29,199
doesn't just provide observations we do

2460
01:45:35,189 --> 01:45:33,040
actually have a light curve database and

2461
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:35,199
we would like to see it populated with

2462
01:45:39,750 --> 01:45:37,199
even more white curves right now we have

2463
01:45:41,590 --> 01:45:39,760
a little over 2 000 objects

2464
01:45:43,430 --> 01:45:41,600
of which about 10 and there are

2465
01:45:44,870 --> 01:45:43,440
asteroids which is not a very high

2466
01:45:46,070 --> 01:45:44,880
number

2467
01:45:49,430 --> 01:45:46,080
now

2468
01:45:52,390 --> 01:45:49,440
i agree with what karl said as well

2469
01:45:53,270 --> 01:45:52,400
he was advocating for having a central

2470
01:45:55,430 --> 01:45:53,280
node

2471
01:45:58,229 --> 01:45:55,440
where people could upload their data and

2472
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:58,239
have it analyzed in a homogeneous way so

2473
01:46:03,189 --> 01:46:00,239
that all the data is analyzed in the

2474
01:46:06,310 --> 01:46:03,199
same way and i think that makes a lot of

2475
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:06,320
sense and again if this were to be

2476
01:46:11,669 --> 01:46:08,320
housed at the npc

2477
01:46:12,870 --> 01:46:11,679
i i think it makes sense

2478
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:12,880
now

2479
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:14,639
the potential for seasonal science and

2480
01:46:18,310 --> 01:46:16,400
this doesn't just apply to like as

2481
01:46:20,870 --> 01:46:18,320
really any type of observations that

2482
01:46:22,229 --> 01:46:20,880
we're making of nearest asteroids with

2483
01:46:24,950 --> 01:46:22,239
amateurs

2484
01:46:27,189 --> 01:46:24,960
the potential is is large

2485
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:27,199
we can engage universities to create

2486
01:46:30,950 --> 01:46:28,880
student projects

2487
01:46:33,750 --> 01:46:30,960
we can convince amateurs that are taking

2488
01:46:35,430 --> 01:46:33,760
pretty pictures to do science uh because

2489
01:46:38,870 --> 01:46:35,440
i think that we have enough pictures of

2490
01:46:40,470 --> 01:46:38,880
the andromeda galaxy or the orion nebula

2491
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:40,480
so get these people to use their very

2492
01:46:44,790 --> 01:46:43,440
nice equipment to actually do science

2493
01:46:47,430 --> 01:46:44,800
we can convince amateurs that are

2494
01:46:50,629 --> 01:46:47,440
already doing science like for example

2495
01:46:52,390 --> 01:46:50,639
those at the aavso that do variable star

2496
01:46:54,470 --> 01:46:52,400
observing they already know how to use

2497
01:46:55,270 --> 01:46:54,480
their equipment and do science then have

2498
01:46:57,510 --> 01:46:55,280
them

2499
01:46:59,990 --> 01:46:57,520
come to science for us

2500
01:47:01,590 --> 01:47:00,000
we can also attract people who don't

2501
01:47:03,750 --> 01:47:01,600
have telescopes but who would like to

2502
01:47:06,070 --> 01:47:03,760
use them if we can gain access to

2503
01:47:07,669 --> 01:47:06,080
robotic telescopes and this has already

2504
01:47:10,709 --> 01:47:07,679
proved very successful for example the

2505
01:47:12,870 --> 01:47:10,719
folks telescope where you have students

2506
01:47:15,350 --> 01:47:12,880
in the uk high school students making

2507
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:15,360
observations and light curves of

2508
01:47:19,270 --> 01:47:17,600
near-earth asteroids

2509
01:47:21,830 --> 01:47:19,280
and there are people who might not want

2510
01:47:24,229 --> 01:47:21,840
to be interested in observing but uh

2511
01:47:26,070 --> 01:47:24,239
they want to collaborate in some way and

2512
01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:26,080
chris lewis for example will talk about

2513
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:27,040
one of

2514
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:29,440
their projects for crowdsourcing with

2515
01:47:34,470 --> 01:47:31,760
asteroid zoo and then there are also the

2516
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:34,480
people who just want to be evangelists

2517
01:47:38,070 --> 01:47:35,600
um

2518
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:38,080
we at the mpc we get emails every now

2519
01:47:42,390 --> 01:47:39,920
and again from people saying hey

2520
01:47:44,229 --> 01:47:42,400
i want to help out i'm a teacher or i

2521
01:47:45,910 --> 01:47:44,239
work at a planetarium what can you guys

2522
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:45,920
give us and

2523
01:47:48,709 --> 01:47:47,360
right now we

2524
01:47:50,950 --> 01:47:48,719
we don't really have the infrastructure

2525
01:47:53,030 --> 01:47:50,960
to provide

2526
01:47:56,629 --> 01:47:53,040
material to these people who really want

2527
01:48:01,189 --> 01:47:59,430
and the role of the minor planet center

2528
01:48:03,910 --> 01:48:01,199
really it's the same role that we've

2529
01:48:06,470 --> 01:48:03,920
always had we've coordinated collected

2530
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:06,480
and disseminated data and observations

2531
01:48:10,470 --> 01:48:08,480
for near-earth asteroids

2532
01:48:12,229 --> 01:48:10,480
we also have light curves and we're

2533
01:48:13,990 --> 01:48:12,239
working on a new database

2534
01:48:16,550 --> 01:48:14,000
that is going to supply physical

2535
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,560
characteristics of asteroids as well so

2536
01:48:21,270 --> 01:48:18,960
really the mpc is going to be your

2537
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:21,280
one-stop shop for asteroid data so it

2538
01:48:24,870 --> 01:48:23,600
would make sense that

2539
01:48:27,430 --> 01:48:24,880
this

2540
01:48:31,030 --> 01:48:27,440
that our resources be leveraged for any

2541
01:48:33,350 --> 01:48:31,040
type of citizen science project

2542
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:33,360
and with that my scary presentation is

2543
01:48:41,590 --> 01:48:35,760
over so i can take questions

2544
01:48:46,470 --> 01:48:43,750
all right so um we will take uh

2545
01:48:49,189 --> 01:48:46,480
questions from the room and from

2546
01:48:52,790 --> 01:48:49,199
social media um

2547
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:52,800
there any in the room to start

2548
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:58,470
uh

2549
01:49:01,990 --> 01:49:00,480
there are two that came in one is a

2550
01:49:04,070 --> 01:49:02,000
little bit more general

2551
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:04,080
what is um what are some examples of

2552
01:49:08,629 --> 01:49:06,960
student projects

2553
01:49:11,189 --> 01:49:08,639
so how do you engage the student

2554
01:49:12,709 --> 01:49:11,199
community jose

2555
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:12,719
well that's not something that we have

2556
01:49:16,750 --> 01:49:14,480
done but like i said for example the

2557
01:49:18,310 --> 01:49:16,760
forks telescope that's

2558
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:18,320
f-a-u-l-k-e-s

2559
01:49:21,350 --> 01:49:20,080
if you look online

2560
01:49:22,870 --> 01:49:21,360
you'll find

2561
01:49:24,709 --> 01:49:22,880
some of the the projects that they've

2562
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:24,719
been running with high school students

2563
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:26,639
in the uk

2564
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:28,800
i think there are other

2565
01:49:31,830 --> 01:49:30,000
right now i can't remember any other

2566
01:49:33,189 --> 01:49:31,840
telescopes that are doing this but i do

2567
01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:33,199
know that there are more telescopes like

2568
01:49:38,790 --> 01:49:36,080
for example the last observatory

2569
01:49:41,189 --> 01:49:38,800
network they also want to do

2570
01:49:43,030 --> 01:49:41,199
provide this service and they have

2571
01:49:44,629 --> 01:49:43,040
telescopes around the world

2572
01:49:47,109 --> 01:49:44,639
and that's very important that you have

2573
01:49:48,390 --> 01:49:47,119
telescopes at night where

2574
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:48,400
in some other parts of the world when

2575
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:50,639
the students are in school

2576
01:49:53,189 --> 01:49:51,679
but if

2577
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:53,199
i think a google search should bring up

2578
01:49:57,189 --> 01:49:55,760
a few projects but i think that we can

2579
01:49:59,270 --> 01:49:57,199
do a lot more there's not that much

2580
01:50:01,510 --> 01:49:59,280
going on

2581
01:50:03,350 --> 01:50:01,520
another question um for me

2582
01:50:06,149 --> 01:50:03,360
just how much data are we talking about

2583
01:50:07,830 --> 01:50:06,159
that you guys have and are you using

2584
01:50:09,830 --> 01:50:07,840
the cloud at all or do you kind of have

2585
01:50:11,430 --> 01:50:09,840
your own server firm setup or your own

2586
01:50:13,589 --> 01:50:11,440
um your own

2587
01:50:15,589 --> 01:50:13,599
farm setup to do that

2588
01:50:17,990 --> 01:50:15,599
yes we do we have our own machines on

2589
01:50:20,950 --> 01:50:18,000
our own cluster

2590
01:50:31,109 --> 01:50:20,960
and right now we have some over 100

2591
01:50:34,709 --> 01:50:31,910
we have

2592
01:50:35,830 --> 01:50:34,719
10 350 i believe

2593
01:50:36,870 --> 01:50:35,840
that's more or less the number that we

2594
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:36,880
have now

2595
01:50:43,189 --> 01:50:39,440
and like you saw in 2012 we received

2596
01:50:45,030 --> 01:50:43,199
um 8.7 was it 8.7 million observations

2597
01:50:47,189 --> 01:50:45,040
and

2598
01:50:49,189 --> 01:50:47,199
we know that some of the observatories

2599
01:50:51,109 --> 01:50:49,199
are gearing up like kathleen the sky

2600
01:50:53,430 --> 01:50:51,119
survey is going to be upgraded

2601
01:50:56,229 --> 01:50:53,440
pan stars should be dedicated more time

2602
01:50:58,149 --> 01:50:56,239
to nearest asteroid observations so

2603
01:51:03,430 --> 01:50:58,159
most likely next year we're going to

2604
01:51:07,910 --> 01:51:05,109
and at what rate

2605
01:51:10,709 --> 01:51:07,920
are you uh discovering new ones you said

2606
01:51:12,629 --> 01:51:10,719
you had 10 350 in your database

2607
01:51:15,189 --> 01:51:12,639
right now um

2608
01:51:17,910 --> 01:51:15,199
at what what when do you expect to hit a

2609
01:51:20,229 --> 01:51:17,920
uh 11 000.

2610
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:20,239
so we discovered about in the last three

2611
01:51:25,750 --> 01:51:23,760
years it's been about 950 a year

2612
01:51:27,589 --> 01:51:25,760
and for next year

2613
01:51:29,910 --> 01:51:27,599
like i said with the upgrades in some of

2614
01:51:31,830 --> 01:51:29,920
the surveys it could easily be two or

2615
01:51:36,390 --> 01:51:31,840
three thousand per year

2616
01:51:40,950 --> 01:51:37,910
like on the slide that you have up right

2617
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:40,960
now you have a neat light curve core

2618
01:51:44,870 --> 01:51:42,000
concept

2619
01:51:46,709 --> 01:51:44,880
could there also be a nia phase curve

2620
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:46,719
core concept

2621
01:51:51,270 --> 01:51:49,199
oh yes um definitely

2622
01:51:54,229 --> 01:51:51,280
the important thing that i didn't point

2623
01:51:55,189 --> 01:51:54,239
out is that a lot of the the asteroids

2624
01:51:57,589 --> 01:51:55,199
that we

2625
01:52:00,229 --> 01:51:57,599
discover um we discovered them at their

2626
01:52:03,669 --> 01:52:00,239
brightest apparition in

2627
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:03,679
maybe a decade or more and i think carl

2628
01:52:08,390 --> 01:52:05,760
said that we need to observe them before

2629
01:52:10,790 --> 01:52:08,400
they disappear and

2630
01:52:11,589 --> 01:52:10,800
that's quite true if we don't observe

2631
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:11,599
them

2632
01:52:16,470 --> 01:52:14,000
within a week or two of their discovery

2633
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:16,480
then the next opportunity to observe

2634
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:18,800
them when they are as bright

2635
01:52:24,790 --> 01:52:21,360
uh might be five ten fifteen years into

2636
01:52:27,589 --> 01:52:24,800
the future or more um hence this uh

2637
01:52:29,270 --> 01:52:27,599
the need to set up an alert system for

2638
01:52:31,750 --> 01:52:29,280
observers so that on the night of

2639
01:52:34,870 --> 01:52:31,760
discovery we can let others know that

2640
01:52:36,790 --> 01:52:34,880
they should go out and take a like curve

2641
01:52:39,189 --> 01:52:36,800
do phase curve

2642
01:52:43,510 --> 01:52:39,199
photometry whatever is they

2643
01:52:47,430 --> 01:52:45,830
question for you jose this is jason um

2644
01:52:48,629 --> 01:52:47,440
hey jason

2645
01:52:49,669 --> 01:52:48,639
hello

2646
01:52:51,669 --> 01:52:49,679
uh

2647
01:52:53,350 --> 01:52:51,679
next steps what would you say would be

2648
01:52:55,589 --> 01:52:53,360
the next uh

2649
01:52:59,030 --> 01:52:55,599
next things to do to get a

2650
01:53:00,390 --> 01:52:59,040
a light curve core going

2651
01:53:02,229 --> 01:53:00,400
um

2652
01:53:04,390 --> 01:53:02,239
i think most of the stuff has already

2653
01:53:05,510 --> 01:53:04,400
been mentioned in the previous talks we

2654
01:53:16,470 --> 01:53:05,520
need to

2655
01:53:18,070 --> 01:53:16,480
are taking good light curbs that i think

2656
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:18,080
is very important and i'd like to stress

2657
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:19,199
that

2658
01:53:22,550 --> 01:53:20,880
we don't want to take mickey mouse like

2659
01:53:25,270 --> 01:53:22,560
us we want

2660
01:53:26,870 --> 01:53:25,280
them to be a scientific quality and

2661
01:53:29,109 --> 01:53:26,880
i think this is important for the people

2662
01:53:31,109 --> 01:53:29,119
participating they know that they are

2663
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:31,119
actually making a real contribution by

2664
01:53:36,229 --> 01:53:33,840
taking science quality data that can be

2665
01:53:38,950 --> 01:53:36,239
publishable

2666
01:53:41,589 --> 01:53:38,960
and once that is set up then we need to

2667
01:53:42,470 --> 01:53:41,599
go find these people

2668
01:53:44,310 --> 01:53:42,480
great

2669
01:53:46,550 --> 01:53:44,320
hi jose it's call

2670
01:53:48,709 --> 01:53:46,560
hey carl hey so one thing we really

2671
01:53:50,070 --> 01:53:48,719
haven't discussed yet today but probably

2672
01:53:51,430 --> 01:53:50,080
is um

2673
01:53:53,430 --> 01:53:51,440
something that needs to be discussed

2674
01:53:55,589 --> 01:53:53,440
especially if we have an online gui is

2675
01:53:57,189 --> 01:53:55,599
actual archiving of data because there's

2676
01:53:58,709 --> 01:53:57,199
really no such thing as bad data

2677
01:54:00,390 --> 01:53:58,719
especially nowadays with all sky

2678
01:54:02,229 --> 01:54:00,400
photometric surveys

2679
01:54:04,470 --> 01:54:02,239
any you know part of the sky you're

2680
01:54:05,830 --> 01:54:04,480
gonna have reference stars in it is that

2681
01:54:07,589 --> 01:54:05,840
something the minor planet center is

2682
01:54:09,669 --> 01:54:07,599
thinking of doing i mean i know it's a

2683
01:54:10,790 --> 01:54:09,679
lot you know we're talking a lot of data

2684
01:54:13,109 --> 01:54:10,800
but is it something you guys are

2685
01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:13,119
thinking of

2686
01:54:16,870 --> 01:54:15,119
so what type of data

2687
01:54:18,950 --> 01:54:16,880
are the actual images

2688
01:54:20,310 --> 01:54:18,960
oh the actual images

2689
01:54:22,149 --> 01:54:20,320
it's something that's been bounced

2690
01:54:24,950 --> 01:54:22,159
around and i think there's been a

2691
01:54:26,550 --> 01:54:24,960
reluctance uh historical reluctance to

2692
01:54:29,350 --> 01:54:26,560
archive images

2693
01:54:31,109 --> 01:54:29,360
um it's something that maybe

2694
01:54:32,709 --> 01:54:31,119
should be discussed

2695
01:54:34,310 --> 01:54:32,719
you know offline

2696
01:54:35,830 --> 01:54:34,320
yeah i mean it's something that going in

2697
01:54:37,510 --> 01:54:35,840
the future with you know that the cost

2698
01:54:39,430 --> 01:54:37,520
of memory going down

2699
01:54:41,669 --> 01:54:39,440
shouldn't be quite as difficult

2700
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:41,679
it it might make sense um our position

2701
01:54:44,790 --> 01:54:43,280
has been that we didn't want images

2702
01:54:46,870 --> 01:54:44,800
because we wanted

2703
01:54:49,589 --> 01:54:46,880
um let's say part of the initiation

2704
01:54:50,950 --> 01:54:49,599
process right is that the observers who

2705
01:54:51,990 --> 01:54:50,960
take the images

2706
01:54:55,270 --> 01:54:52,000
should be

2707
01:54:57,109 --> 01:54:55,280
qualified enough to do the reduction and

2708
01:54:59,990 --> 01:54:57,119
get

2709
01:55:02,229 --> 01:55:00,000
all the data that they send to us so we

2710
01:55:03,189 --> 01:55:02,239
don't need to see the images

2711
01:55:05,510 --> 01:55:03,199
now

2712
01:55:08,550 --> 01:55:05,520
like i said this is historical and

2713
01:55:11,990 --> 01:55:08,560
what we couldn't do in 1980 maybe we can

2714
01:55:13,030 --> 01:55:12,000
do in 2015 but it's it's not something

2715
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:13,040
that

2716
01:55:17,910 --> 01:55:16,080
can tell you yes or no

2717
01:55:19,189 --> 01:55:17,920
but it is something that maybe we should

2718
01:55:20,470 --> 01:55:19,199
uh discuss

2719
01:55:22,390 --> 01:55:20,480
right because there's been plenty of

2720
01:55:23,669 --> 01:55:22,400
cases where even i think gareth had went

2721
01:55:25,910 --> 01:55:23,679
back and measured the original

2722
01:55:27,589 --> 01:55:25,920
photographic plates of various asteroids

2723
01:55:29,350 --> 01:55:27,599
back 100 years ago

2724
01:55:31,510 --> 01:55:29,360
so as we get new catalogs it would be

2725
01:55:33,510 --> 01:55:31,520
nice to be able to go back and actually

2726
01:55:35,830 --> 01:55:33,520
you know re-reduce all this data again

2727
01:55:38,229 --> 01:55:35,840
at some point in the future

2728
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:38,239
yeah maybe it would um and i'll point

2729
01:55:41,430 --> 01:55:40,080
out that like herbs we are taking the

2730
01:55:42,790 --> 01:55:41,440
raw data

2731
01:55:44,709 --> 01:55:42,800
that is something that we actually do

2732
01:55:52,229 --> 01:55:44,719
want for sure the raw data for the white

2733
01:55:56,709 --> 01:55:55,589
all right any other questions in room

2734
01:55:58,550 --> 01:55:56,719
nope

2735
01:55:59,910 --> 01:55:58,560
okay thank you jose very much and please

2736
01:56:01,030 --> 01:55:59,920
stick around for the conversation that

2737
01:56:03,030 --> 01:56:01,040
we're going to have later the larger

2738
01:56:07,910 --> 01:56:03,040
group discussion thank you i definitely

2739
01:56:13,430 --> 01:56:10,229
all right next up we should have paul

2740
01:56:15,270 --> 01:56:13,440
cox on the phone paul can you hear me

2741
01:56:18,550 --> 01:56:15,280
yes john thank you very much

2742
01:56:20,629 --> 01:56:18,560
um and paul is with slu llc and he's

2743
01:56:22,390 --> 01:56:20,639
going to run us a bit through the work

2744
01:56:25,030 --> 01:56:22,400
that they do to enable

2745
01:56:26,629 --> 01:56:25,040
amateurs to make observations and also

2746
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:26,639
some of the public engagement they work

2747
01:56:31,350 --> 01:56:28,480
the work they do to increase public

2748
01:56:34,070 --> 01:56:31,360
awareness of um uh these observations as

2749
01:56:35,430 --> 01:56:34,080
well so take it away paul

2750
01:56:40,950 --> 01:56:35,440
thank you and just to remind you you

2751
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:42,950
move um

2752
01:56:46,310 --> 01:56:44,390
good afternoon and thank you very much

2753
01:56:49,030 --> 01:56:46,320
for inviting us back

2754
01:56:51,350 --> 01:56:49,040
to to participate in nasa's asteroid

2755
01:56:53,669 --> 01:56:51,360
grand challenge nice to be back uh as

2756
01:57:13,669 --> 01:56:53,679
you said my name is paul bolt i'm a time

2757
01:57:18,629 --> 01:57:15,669
and since that time our amateur

2758
01:57:21,510 --> 01:57:18,639
astronomer members have taken over 2.4

2759
01:57:23,430 --> 01:57:21,520
million real-time images using ski's

2760
01:57:25,430 --> 01:57:23,440
passive technology

2761
01:57:28,790 --> 01:57:25,440
now i am going to talk about this slide

2762
01:57:30,629 --> 01:57:28,800
now uh we drive huge audiences from our

2763
01:57:32,470 --> 01:57:30,639
live public broadcasters celestial

2764
01:57:34,229 --> 01:57:32,480
events and the highlight of that

2765
01:57:35,669 --> 01:57:34,239
um

2766
01:57:44,470 --> 01:57:35,679
should be going back to the google

2767
01:57:48,790 --> 01:57:47,030
directly into the google doodle on their

2768
01:57:49,589 --> 01:57:48,800
home page for 24 hours so that's pretty

2769
01:58:05,109 --> 01:57:49,599
cool

2770
01:58:05,119 --> 01:58:08,310
pursue telescopes

2771
01:58:13,109 --> 01:58:10,629
those telescopes

2772
01:58:16,550 --> 01:58:13,119
control every minute are based here at

2773
01:58:20,149 --> 01:58:18,070
observatory site

2774
01:58:23,270 --> 01:58:20,159
which is home to some of europe's finest

2775
01:58:25,430 --> 01:58:23,280
telescopes it's uh located in the canary

2776
01:58:27,510 --> 01:58:25,440
islands um

2777
01:58:29,910 --> 01:58:27,520
that means that the hours of darkness is

2778
01:58:32,070 --> 01:58:29,920
absolutely ideal for us users and it

2779
01:58:44,229 --> 01:58:32,080
also eliminates one of those classic

2780
01:58:47,990 --> 01:58:46,310
celebrates the 10th anniversary of our

2781
01:58:51,270 --> 01:58:48,000
public launch so we're very excited

2782
01:58:54,149 --> 01:58:51,280
about that and over that time we have

2783
01:58:56,709 --> 01:58:54,159
honed this robotic observatory solution

2784
01:58:59,430 --> 01:58:56,719
that's proven to be affordable

2785
01:59:09,669 --> 01:58:59,440
and is designed to be extremely scalable

2786
01:59:12,870 --> 01:59:11,350
you are on the correct side now so

2787
01:59:17,270 --> 01:59:12,880
please don't move forward until i say

2788
01:59:21,990 --> 01:59:20,070
patented system deals with every aspect

2789
01:59:24,470 --> 01:59:22,000
of the operations from scheduling the

2790
01:59:27,109 --> 01:59:24,480
missions image acquisition by fully

2791
01:59:29,669 --> 01:59:27,119
automated controllers

2792
01:59:31,830 --> 01:59:29,679
also image reductions and processing all

2793
01:59:34,310 --> 01:59:31,840
in real time and the progressive

2794
01:59:36,709 --> 01:59:34,320
real-time streaming to sleep members in

2795
01:59:37,750 --> 01:59:36,719
what we call the mission interface next

2796
01:59:40,149 --> 01:59:37,760
slide

2797
01:59:41,990 --> 01:59:40,159
uh members not only watch missions but

2798
02:00:10,310 --> 01:59:42,000
they've scheduled they can also watch

2799
02:00:13,830 --> 02:00:11,990
contributing important data and

2800
02:00:15,750 --> 02:00:13,840
measurements to a wide variety of

2801
02:00:17,430 --> 02:00:15,760
institutions and professional bodies let

2802
02:00:18,790 --> 02:00:17,440
me talk about that a little bit in a

2803
02:00:20,310 --> 02:00:18,800
moment

2804
02:00:24,149 --> 02:00:20,320
next slide

2805
02:00:25,030 --> 02:00:24,159
an incredibly important aspect of slu's

2806
02:00:27,910 --> 02:00:25,040
work

2807
02:00:30,790 --> 02:00:27,920
is our live public broadcasting covering

2808
02:00:33,030 --> 02:00:30,800
just about every major celestial event

2809
02:00:35,510 --> 02:00:33,040
including what we consider our long

2810
02:00:39,350 --> 02:00:35,520
tenacious campaign to alert the public

2811
02:00:41,990 --> 02:00:39,360
to the threat to mirror asteroids

2812
02:00:44,390 --> 02:00:42,000
some um of their closest approaches to

2813
02:00:45,669 --> 02:00:44,400
earth often within days or weeks of

2814
02:00:47,669 --> 02:00:45,679
discovery

2815
02:00:49,910 --> 02:00:47,679
our program is being supported by

2816
02:00:51,669 --> 02:00:49,920
experts such as dr lucy green duncan

2817
02:00:54,310 --> 02:00:51,679
copp and

2818
02:00:56,470 --> 02:00:54,320
we also want to showcase the work and

2819
02:00:58,790 --> 02:00:56,480
researchers through members and i'd like

2820
02:01:00,550 --> 02:00:58,800
to give a quick length check to these uh

2821
02:01:01,990 --> 02:01:00,560
few people excuse me for doing this but

2822
02:01:05,270 --> 02:01:02,000
the name approaches dave larkin

2823
02:01:11,669 --> 02:01:05,280
christine feliciano paul turner evans

2824
02:01:16,470 --> 02:01:14,070
and that subsidizes the production cost

2825
02:01:19,910 --> 02:01:16,480
and that's a perfect fit there is one

2826
02:01:22,229 --> 02:01:19,920
example with the sponsorship of our 2009

2827
02:01:25,669 --> 02:01:22,239
luna eclipse coverage by parallel

2828
02:01:28,470 --> 02:01:25,679
pictures for the movie transformers

2829
02:01:31,109 --> 02:01:28,480
uh next slide uh actually you need to go

2830
02:01:32,550 --> 02:01:31,119
to slide nine now i think you're

2831
02:01:37,030 --> 02:01:32,560
a little bit behind

2832
02:01:39,510 --> 02:01:37,040
now for some events we call on

2833
02:01:41,830 --> 02:01:39,520
of observatory partners around the globe

2834
02:01:44,390 --> 02:01:41,840
many of those partners are motivated

2835
02:01:46,709 --> 02:01:44,400
just like we are by their own outreach

2836
02:01:49,750 --> 02:01:46,719
programs and still dramatically

2837
02:01:51,910 --> 02:01:49,760
increases their reach and we're always

2838
02:01:53,350 --> 02:01:51,920
looking for new partners so the slide

2839
02:01:55,189 --> 02:01:53,360
that should be up on the screen at the

2840
02:01:59,430 --> 02:01:55,199
moment will be showing uh

2841
02:02:01,830 --> 02:01:59,440
through one uh thank you very much um

2842
02:02:03,750 --> 02:02:01,840
anyway our technical infrastructure

2843
02:02:06,149 --> 02:02:03,760
means that our event partners can

2844
02:02:08,149 --> 02:02:06,159
connect is almost independent of

2845
02:02:09,830 --> 02:02:08,159
whatever equipment that they have and

2846
02:02:11,589 --> 02:02:09,840
that's really pertinent for the master

2847
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:11,599
initiative as well and showing these

2848
02:02:15,030 --> 02:02:13,440
events live online have brought them to

2849
02:02:20,470 --> 02:02:15,040
an audience that would otherwise have

2850
02:02:25,510 --> 02:02:22,870
network uh such that media websites now

2851
02:02:27,589 --> 02:02:25,520
can easily embed our live coverage and

2852
02:02:30,870 --> 02:02:27,599
we've become the go-to partner for many

2853
02:02:33,589 --> 02:02:30,880
of them including abc news cc

2854
02:02:35,990 --> 02:02:33,599
cnn and a whole bunch of others because

2855
02:02:37,830 --> 02:02:36,000
you know among other things our robust

2856
02:02:39,270 --> 02:02:37,840
systems can usually be relied on to

2857
02:02:40,950 --> 02:02:39,280
deliver

2858
02:02:42,950 --> 02:02:40,960
and we always try and provide weather

2859
02:02:46,390 --> 02:02:42,960
redundancy when possible

2860
02:02:48,870 --> 02:02:46,400
next slide and because our coverage is

2861
02:02:51,270 --> 02:02:48,880
live our images and footage are often

2862
02:02:52,870 --> 02:02:51,280
the first to hit mainstream tv channels

2863
02:02:55,189 --> 02:02:52,880
and that's been especially true of our

2864
02:02:57,270 --> 02:02:55,199
nearest asteroid close approach shows

2865
02:02:57,990 --> 02:02:57,280
over the last couple of years

2866
02:03:00,790 --> 02:02:58,000
so

2867
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:00,800
how can we apply our tried and tested

2868
02:03:07,910 --> 02:03:03,280
systems and community to assist in the

2869
02:03:10,390 --> 02:03:07,920
nasa grand challenge well next slide

2870
02:03:13,669 --> 02:03:10,400
one area of our activities which has

2871
02:03:15,350 --> 02:03:13,679
grown uh steadily over the universe has

2872
02:03:17,510 --> 02:03:15,360
been a number of members using slew

2873
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,520
telescope to undertake various research

2874
02:03:20,629 --> 02:03:19,119
and scientific studies

2875
02:03:22,550 --> 02:03:20,639
many submitted observations and

2876
02:03:25,750 --> 02:03:22,560
measurements night after night year

2877
02:03:26,830 --> 02:03:25,760
after year to a broad variety

2878
02:03:28,709 --> 02:03:26,840
of

2879
02:03:30,229 --> 02:03:28,719
organizations and institutions uh

2880
02:03:32,550 --> 02:03:30,239
including as we've seen to the minor

2881
02:03:34,310 --> 02:03:32,560
private center now it quickly became

2882
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:34,320
apparent to us that many individual

2883
02:03:38,390 --> 02:03:36,960
members were tackling the same steep

2884
02:03:40,629 --> 02:03:38,400
learning curve

2885
02:03:47,990 --> 02:03:40,639
for many areas of study so to go with

2886
02:03:52,229 --> 02:03:49,750
now one member is particularly

2887
02:03:53,109 --> 02:03:52,239
instrumental in setting this up um and

2888
02:03:59,510 --> 02:03:53,119
you

2889
02:04:01,669 --> 02:03:59,520
submissions over a two-week period last

2890
02:04:03,030 --> 02:04:01,679
year and this is a very public thank you

2891
02:04:04,790 --> 02:04:03,040
to norman pritchett so thank you for

2892
02:04:07,030 --> 02:04:04,800
that uh next slide

2893
02:04:10,310 --> 02:04:07,040
in addition to the

2894
02:04:12,709 --> 02:04:10,320
lightning activity members have

2895
02:04:15,189 --> 02:04:12,719
extremely quickly to make follow-up

2896
02:04:17,589 --> 02:04:15,199
observations of various short notice

2897
02:04:19,510 --> 02:04:17,599
events not least because we have this

2898
02:04:22,950 --> 02:04:19,520
huge number of members standing for

2899
02:04:24,629 --> 02:04:22,960
astro news stories uh alerts 24 hours a

2900
02:04:26,629 --> 02:04:24,639
day

2901
02:04:28,069 --> 02:04:26,639
a fantastic classic example which we

2902
02:04:30,790 --> 02:04:28,079
really heard about actually during on

2903
02:04:33,030 --> 02:04:30,800
one of the previous uh presentations

2904
02:04:35,750 --> 02:04:33,040
classic example was when we pointed the

2905
02:04:38,229 --> 02:04:35,760
uh the canary is telescopes to be one of

2906
02:04:43,430 --> 02:04:38,239
the few uh around the world who managed

2907
02:04:47,109 --> 02:04:43,440
to uh image asteroid 2008 tc3

2908
02:04:49,109 --> 02:04:47,119
that was around 80 tons 13 foot diameter

2909
02:04:50,870 --> 02:04:49,119
and we finished it a few hours before it

2910
02:04:53,830 --> 02:04:50,880
entered earth's atmosphere over the

2911
02:04:55,510 --> 02:04:53,840
nubian desert in sedan and of course the

2912
02:04:57,589 --> 02:04:55,520
entire student membership we're able to

2913
02:05:00,310 --> 02:04:57,599
watch the images in real time so this is

2914
02:05:01,189 --> 02:05:00,320
really getting it out to huge numbers of

2915
02:05:03,430 --> 02:05:01,199
people

2916
02:05:05,109 --> 02:05:03,440
but that's only one example so many team

2917
02:05:07,669 --> 02:05:05,119
members have not stopped a terrific

2918
02:05:10,709 --> 02:05:07,679
calorie pre-recovery confirmation and

2919
02:05:13,990 --> 02:05:10,719
other unique observations over the years

2920
02:05:16,470 --> 02:05:14,000
inside now one of the key methods and

2921
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:16,480
this is very appropriate to some of the

2922
02:05:19,830 --> 02:05:18,480
previous presentations that we've seen

2923
02:05:21,830 --> 02:05:19,840
and one of the key methods we're

2924
02:05:24,709 --> 02:05:21,840
developing to broaden this cooperative

2925
02:05:27,510 --> 02:05:24,719
program is through a structured teaching

2926
02:05:29,910 --> 02:05:27,520
and mentoring program now members of the

2927
02:05:31,990 --> 02:05:29,920
corporate cooperative they graduate to

2928
02:05:33,350 --> 02:05:32,000
each level and i think somebody else

2929
02:05:35,830 --> 02:05:33,360
measured you know maybe somebody has to

2930
02:05:38,550 --> 02:05:35,840
be tested and yes you do because you

2931
02:05:40,709 --> 02:05:38,560
have to maintain your observatory's

2932
02:05:43,270 --> 02:05:40,719
reputation so

2933
02:05:44,629 --> 02:05:43,280
everybody participates in preview data

2934
02:05:46,310 --> 02:05:44,639
and measurements to ensure that the

2935
02:05:48,950 --> 02:05:46,320
reputation and the quality of our

2936
02:05:50,870 --> 02:05:48,960
submissions remains high and we aim to

2937
02:05:52,069 --> 02:05:50,880
use the program to engage a wider

2938
02:05:54,390 --> 02:05:52,079
community

2939
02:05:56,390 --> 02:05:54,400
of amateur astronomers extending our

2940
02:05:58,069 --> 02:05:56,400
partnerships with astronomical

2941
02:06:00,790 --> 02:05:58,079
societies not only in the u.s but

2942
02:06:03,189 --> 02:06:00,800
globally next slide

2943
02:06:05,189 --> 02:06:03,199
our core project program has provided a

2944
02:06:07,350 --> 02:06:05,199
ready-made structure to service certain

2945
02:06:08,310 --> 02:06:07,360
initiatives and projects and one recent

2946
02:06:10,950 --> 02:06:08,320
program

2947
02:06:14,229 --> 02:06:10,960
has been the quantity and consistency of

2948
02:06:15,589 --> 02:06:14,239
data we've acquired for current iso and

2949
02:06:17,750 --> 02:06:15,599
we're currently working with the nasa

2950
02:06:20,149 --> 02:06:17,760
back pro and comic ison observing

2951
02:06:22,790 --> 02:06:20,159
campaign to ensure that that data is

2952
02:06:24,550 --> 02:06:22,800
utilized to the full uh and that will be

2953
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:24,560
coming out later on this week and

2954
02:06:28,790 --> 02:06:26,639
they're always there to catch the

2955
02:06:31,430 --> 02:06:28,800
unexpected like this series of images

2956
02:06:33,189 --> 02:06:31,440
showing comet ison and its temporary

2957
02:06:36,229 --> 02:06:33,199
travelling companion then near earth

2958
02:06:38,629 --> 02:06:36,239
asteroid 433 eos that was a fantastic

2959
02:06:39,589 --> 02:06:38,639
night next slide

2960
02:06:42,709 --> 02:06:39,599
so

2961
02:06:44,069 --> 02:06:42,719
astrometry asteroid photometry and light

2962
02:06:46,470 --> 02:06:44,079
curves we've heard a lot about this

2963
02:06:48,310 --> 02:06:46,480
already and that's one new era of study

2964
02:06:50,470 --> 02:06:48,320
and observation that we started a few

2965
02:06:52,950 --> 02:06:50,480
weeks ago actually it was just before

2966
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:52,960
the previous workshop was called and

2967
02:06:56,390 --> 02:06:54,719
we're filming a specialist group of

2968
02:06:57,669 --> 02:06:56,400
members around that

2969
02:06:59,910 --> 02:06:57,679
and it's particularly pertinent

2970
02:07:01,910 --> 02:06:59,920
obviously to nasa's asteroid initiative

2971
02:07:04,709 --> 02:07:01,920
now sleeves were in place to generate

2972
02:07:07,350 --> 02:07:04,719
asteroids and light curves from both our

2973
02:07:10,149 --> 02:07:07,360
existing site and from any partner

2974
02:07:13,350 --> 02:07:10,159
observatory that could be adapted easily

2975
02:07:15,430 --> 02:07:13,360
to use infrastructure now this important

2976
02:07:17,350 --> 02:07:15,440
aspect of asteroid study and monitoring

2977
02:07:19,030 --> 02:07:17,360
is largely neglected as we've heard by

2978
02:07:20,629 --> 02:07:19,040
the professional community and that's

2979
02:07:23,750 --> 02:07:20,639
primarily due to the fact that it

2980
02:07:26,629 --> 02:07:23,760
swallows up a huge amount of time and

2981
02:07:28,310 --> 02:07:26,639
the prose time which actually usually

2982
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:28,320
the proposed telescope time is usually

2983
02:07:31,669 --> 02:07:29,599
quite limited

2984
02:07:33,830 --> 02:07:31,679
whereas amateurs actually probably have

2985
02:07:34,790 --> 02:07:33,840
far greater access to uh telescopes and

2986
02:07:36,950 --> 02:07:34,800
approach

2987
02:07:39,990 --> 02:07:36,960
now the light cameras as we've seen they

2988
02:07:41,510 --> 02:07:40,000
can take memorize for a single asteroid

2989
02:07:44,149 --> 02:07:41,520
so it really is best suited to a

2990
02:07:46,629 --> 02:07:44,159
dedicated resource but at a capacity to

2991
02:07:48,709 --> 02:07:46,639
use existing facilities we could build a

2992
02:07:50,870 --> 02:07:48,719
formidable and low-cost network of

2993
02:07:53,270 --> 02:07:50,880
instruments dedicated to the past with a

2994
02:07:55,669 --> 02:07:53,280
huge number of amateur astronomers at

2995
02:07:57,910 --> 02:07:55,679
the controls now using the same kind of

2996
02:08:00,390 --> 02:07:57,920
training and mentoring that works so

2997
02:08:03,270 --> 02:08:00,400
well for the existing member groups this

2998
02:08:06,229 --> 02:08:03,280
task could be open to a wider dedicated

2999
02:08:08,229 --> 02:08:06,239
team of citizen scientists very easily a

3000
02:08:10,550 --> 02:08:08,239
coordinated observation campaign would

3001
02:08:12,550 --> 02:08:10,560
also dramatically reduce duplication of

3002
02:08:14,149 --> 02:08:12,560
effort in the field and with multiple

3003
02:08:16,069 --> 02:08:14,159
facilities operating at different

3004
02:08:18,149 --> 02:08:16,079
latitudes it would be possible to

3005
02:08:20,390 --> 02:08:18,159
acquire data for those asteroids with

3006
02:08:22,790 --> 02:08:20,400
periods that really can't effectively be

3007
02:08:24,629 --> 02:08:22,800
covered by a single station uh next

3008
02:08:27,350 --> 02:08:24,639
slide

3009
02:08:28,950 --> 02:08:27,360
and this is another area

3010
02:08:31,030 --> 02:08:28,960
cost-effective and flexible

3011
02:08:32,550 --> 02:08:31,040
infrastructure could be applied towards

3012
02:08:34,550 --> 02:08:32,560
the initiative

3013
02:08:36,390 --> 02:08:34,560
now that we do is far from easy but

3014
02:08:38,470 --> 02:08:36,400
we've developed hardware and software

3015
02:08:40,709 --> 02:08:38,480
systems that can operate in the most

3016
02:08:42,310 --> 02:08:40,719
severe environments so you could add

3017
02:08:43,350 --> 02:08:42,320
capacity to our observatory in the

3018
02:08:45,270 --> 02:08:43,360
canary

3019
02:08:47,030 --> 02:08:45,280
and we had consent and approvals to

3020
02:08:49,109 --> 02:08:47,040
construct new observatories in both

3021
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:49,119
hemispheres so we could bring new

3022
02:08:53,430 --> 02:08:51,599
instruments online in a matter of months

3023
02:08:55,109 --> 02:08:53,440
not years and don't forget this is

3024
02:08:57,510 --> 02:08:55,119
something that we're already doing this

3025
02:08:59,510 --> 02:08:57,520
is not a paper exercise we're already

3026
02:09:02,310 --> 02:08:59,520
doing this stuff

3027
02:09:04,470 --> 02:09:02,320
now the welcome infrastructure uh it

3028
02:09:06,950 --> 02:09:04,480
could be adapted to accommodate the kind

3029
02:09:08,629 --> 02:09:06,960
of advanced and generally underutilized

3030
02:09:10,229 --> 02:09:08,639
amateur observatories that are being

3031
02:09:11,589 --> 02:09:10,239
talked about by the other workshop

3032
02:09:14,709 --> 02:09:11,599
participants

3033
02:09:16,790 --> 02:09:14,719
and it is really an incredible amount of

3034
02:09:18,550 --> 02:09:16,800
equipment out there that just sits idle

3035
02:09:20,790 --> 02:09:18,560
and we found that actually a lot of

3036
02:09:22,390 --> 02:09:20,800
people they're not using it not because

3037
02:09:25,669 --> 02:09:22,400
of time not because of a lot of other

3038
02:09:27,589 --> 02:09:25,679
excuses but they don't have a purpose

3039
02:09:30,310 --> 02:09:27,599
so if you give the armature astronomer

3040
02:09:32,470 --> 02:09:30,320
with that equipment a purpose to use it

3041
02:09:35,830 --> 02:09:32,480
they jump on it so we were talking about

3042
02:09:38,470 --> 02:09:35,840
the motivation i think earlier of um

3043
02:09:40,390 --> 02:09:38,480
of citizen scientists so

3044
02:09:42,390 --> 02:09:40,400
this would remove a host of barriers

3045
02:09:43,669 --> 02:09:42,400
that many amateur astronomers face when

3046
02:09:45,910 --> 02:09:43,679
they try and set up their own

3047
02:09:47,910 --> 02:09:45,920
observatories high costs poor sites

3048
02:09:50,310 --> 02:09:47,920
complex time consuming setup and

3049
02:09:51,990 --> 02:09:50,320
operations lack of expertise the weather

3050
02:09:54,390 --> 02:09:52,000
of course a little of support no

3051
02:09:56,310 --> 02:09:54,400
training and no fellowship of

3052
02:09:58,229 --> 02:09:56,320
right-minded astronomers to work with

3053
02:10:00,550 --> 02:09:58,239
and that's been raised as well that's

3054
02:10:03,430 --> 02:10:00,560
really the community aspect of this is

3055
02:10:05,750 --> 02:10:03,440
an incredibly big motivator for people

3056
02:10:07,830 --> 02:10:05,760
to get involved and to stay involved

3057
02:10:09,510 --> 02:10:07,840
next slide and last night

3058
02:10:11,510 --> 02:10:09,520
so i hope

3059
02:10:13,669 --> 02:10:11,520
we've illustrated those slew's existing

3060
02:10:16,310 --> 02:10:13,679
operations infrastructure public and

3061
02:10:18,310 --> 02:10:16,320
media outreach all along perfectly in

3062
02:10:20,229 --> 02:10:18,320
our lives with none of the aims and

3063
02:10:22,470 --> 02:10:20,239
ambitions of the initiative

3064
02:10:25,350 --> 02:10:22,480
and maybe above all else we can make

3065
02:10:27,510 --> 02:10:25,360
active and meaningful participation in

3066
02:10:29,750 --> 02:10:27,520
the initiative accessible to huge

3067
02:10:31,990 --> 02:10:29,760
numbers of amateur astronomers around

3068
02:10:33,750 --> 02:10:32,000
the globe removing all of the barriers

3069
02:10:35,750 --> 02:10:33,760
that typically prevent them from

3070
02:10:36,790 --> 02:10:35,760
pursuing their passion for science and

3071
02:10:39,189 --> 02:10:36,800
astronomy

3072
02:10:41,589 --> 02:10:39,199
now we could utilize our real-world and

3073
02:10:44,149 --> 02:10:41,599
tested scalable infrastructure to place

3074
02:10:45,830 --> 02:10:44,159
equipment at their disposal to monitor

3075
02:10:48,310 --> 02:10:45,840
rare asteroids from world-class

3076
02:10:50,709 --> 02:10:48,320
observatory sites and elsewhere

3077
02:10:52,550 --> 02:10:50,719
and the structure of our self-supporting

3078
02:10:55,189 --> 02:10:52,560
groups would provide the kind of

3079
02:10:57,510 --> 02:10:55,199
hand-holding and training that really is

3080
02:10:59,830 --> 02:10:57,520
required when people are first faced

3081
02:11:01,030 --> 02:10:59,840
with the enormous steep learning curve

3082
02:11:03,430 --> 02:11:01,040
when they're when they start to

3083
02:11:06,310 --> 02:11:03,440
undertake this kind of work and last but

3084
02:11:08,709 --> 02:11:06,320
not least actually we can use our

3085
02:11:11,669 --> 02:11:08,719
existing and extensive media and partner

3086
02:11:14,229 --> 02:11:11,679
reach to publicize the initiative and

3087
02:11:16,709 --> 02:11:14,239
showcase the achievements of the legion

3088
02:11:19,270 --> 02:11:16,719
of amateur astronomers we'd rally for

3089
02:11:21,270 --> 02:11:19,280
the initiative uh anybody can contact me

3090
02:11:24,870 --> 02:11:21,280
if they're interested in contacting me

3091
02:11:26,550 --> 02:11:24,880
they can just send an email to paul

3092
02:11:33,430 --> 02:11:26,560
calm and that will reach me but thank

3093
02:11:36,310 --> 02:11:34,870
all right so um while we're waiting for

3094
02:11:38,950 --> 02:11:36,320
other folks in the room who have

3095
02:11:42,069 --> 02:11:38,960
questions um i have one i know that you

3096
02:11:43,430 --> 02:11:42,079
talked a lot paul about the scalability

3097
02:11:44,310 --> 02:11:43,440
of

3098
02:11:45,830 --> 02:11:44,320
your

3099
02:11:48,149 --> 02:11:45,840
company's system

3100
02:11:50,550 --> 02:11:48,159
which largely is a subscription model

3101
02:11:53,189 --> 02:11:50,560
for members to enter a cooperative

3102
02:11:55,430 --> 02:11:53,199
pay an annual fee and be able to reserve

3103
02:11:57,109 --> 02:11:55,440
time on your telescopes for various

3104
02:11:58,629 --> 02:11:57,119
types of observing so it's for folks

3105
02:12:01,430 --> 02:11:58,639
that don't have their own

3106
02:12:03,750 --> 02:12:01,440
capable telescopes they can pay

3107
02:12:05,350 --> 02:12:03,760
a fee to get access to not only your

3108
02:12:06,709 --> 02:12:05,360
telescopes but also your processing

3109
02:12:08,870 --> 02:12:06,719
software and

3110
02:12:10,870 --> 02:12:08,880
a bunch of that those other capabilities

3111
02:12:12,390 --> 02:12:10,880
as well i mean

3112
02:12:14,470 --> 02:12:12,400
you spoke a lot about

3113
02:12:18,550 --> 02:12:14,480
scaling this model so more people can

3114
02:12:21,350 --> 02:12:18,560
use it i uh wonder to what extent um

3115
02:12:23,510 --> 02:12:21,360
the reliance on local uh

3116
02:12:24,709 --> 02:12:23,520
uh local astronomy clubs um it seemed to

3117
02:12:27,669 --> 02:12:24,719
be that your your

3118
02:12:30,229 --> 02:12:27,679
one to one mentoring model relied on

3119
02:12:32,629 --> 02:12:30,239
local astronomy clubs kind of buying in

3120
02:12:35,830 --> 02:12:32,639
and signing on and wanting to actually

3121
02:12:37,430 --> 02:12:35,840
uh focus on asteroid i i want to know a

3122
02:12:40,069 --> 02:12:37,440
little bit more about your strategy to

3123
02:12:42,069 --> 02:12:40,079
get those locals kind of enrolled um is

3124
02:12:43,510 --> 02:12:42,079
it a one-on-one kind of going and

3125
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:43,520
talking to each of the local astronomy

3126
02:12:46,950 --> 02:12:45,280
clubs is there a way to kind of tackle

3127
02:12:48,470 --> 02:12:46,960
all the ones in the u.s at the same time

3128
02:12:49,990 --> 02:12:48,480
kind of what's your enrollment

3129
02:12:51,830 --> 02:12:50,000
strategy there when you're talking about

3130
02:12:53,430 --> 02:12:51,840
scaling for technical assistance for

3131
02:12:55,109 --> 02:12:53,440
mentoring to actually get more people

3132
02:12:57,669 --> 02:12:55,119
observing

3133
02:12:59,990 --> 02:12:57,679
it's not actually dependent on local

3134
02:13:01,990 --> 02:13:00,000
astronomy clubs what we've found has

3135
02:13:03,109 --> 02:13:02,000
worked and

3136
02:13:05,109 --> 02:13:03,119
this

3137
02:13:06,629 --> 02:13:05,119
our scheme at the moment our mentoring

3138
02:13:09,030 --> 02:13:06,639
scheme at the moment

3139
02:13:10,390 --> 02:13:09,040
people kind of aren't allowed in unless

3140
02:13:11,350 --> 02:13:10,400
they promise that they're going to

3141
02:13:16,709 --> 02:13:11,360
mentor

3142
02:13:19,510 --> 02:13:16,719
they're up to up to speed on something

3143
02:13:21,669 --> 02:13:19,520
then they then take over two newbies

3144
02:13:23,510 --> 02:13:21,679
coming in so it's kind of a little bit

3145
02:13:25,990 --> 02:13:23,520
like network marketing from that point

3146
02:13:28,950 --> 02:13:26,000
of view um you know so it's not really

3147
02:13:32,149 --> 02:13:28,960
reliant on local astronomy clubs at all

3148
02:13:33,589 --> 02:13:32,159
and frankly when we get down to the bare

3149
02:13:34,790 --> 02:13:33,599
bones of this and especially when we're

3150
02:13:36,550 --> 02:13:34,800
talking about

3151
02:13:39,270 --> 02:13:36,560
um specific

3152
02:13:41,109 --> 02:13:39,280
scientific tasks it actually becomes

3153
02:13:43,589 --> 02:13:41,119
really quite routine

3154
02:13:45,750 --> 02:13:43,599
um and it's not difficult to do i know

3155
02:13:47,830 --> 02:13:45,760
people have mentioned how difficult the

3156
02:13:48,550 --> 02:13:47,840
mpc site is to use and stuff like that

3157
02:13:51,350 --> 02:13:48,560
but

3158
02:13:53,750 --> 02:13:51,360
our members frankly as soon as they're

3159
02:13:55,589 --> 02:13:53,760
as soon as their hand is held

3160
02:14:04,790 --> 02:13:55,599
for their first couple of submissions

3161
02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:08,470
alone

3162
02:14:13,750 --> 02:14:09,350
great

3163
02:14:15,750 --> 02:14:13,760
um other questions on social media

3164
02:14:16,709 --> 02:14:15,760
i have i have a question paul this is

3165
02:14:19,109 --> 02:14:16,719
jason

3166
02:14:23,109 --> 02:14:20,550
you've provided an incredible

3167
02:14:25,109 --> 02:14:23,119
opportunity for folks that

3168
02:14:26,950 --> 02:14:25,119
don't have the means to have a telescope

3169
02:14:28,870 --> 02:14:26,960
in their backyard if say they live in a

3170
02:14:30,950 --> 02:14:28,880
city

3171
02:14:33,109 --> 02:14:30,960
but for some people there is still the

3172
02:14:35,109 --> 02:14:33,119
allure of going unto the mountain and

3173
02:14:37,669 --> 02:14:35,119
seeing the telescope

3174
02:14:40,870 --> 02:14:37,679
are there opportunities for people to

3175
02:14:42,950 --> 02:14:40,880
travel to the sites um

3176
02:14:45,430 --> 02:14:42,960
to the canaries and

3177
02:14:46,709 --> 02:14:45,440
and either

3178
02:14:49,189 --> 02:14:46,719
work there

3179
02:14:50,229 --> 02:14:49,199
uh first hand or see how the operation

3180
02:14:52,229 --> 02:14:50,239
works and

3181
02:14:54,229 --> 02:14:52,239
from that regard

3182
02:14:56,870 --> 02:14:54,239
that is such a pertinent question at

3183
02:14:59,910 --> 02:14:56,880
this particular time we have

3184
02:15:01,510 --> 02:14:59,920
we just found a new 10-year deal with

3185
02:15:03,030 --> 02:15:01,520
our partners at the site the managers of

3186
02:15:05,750 --> 02:15:03,040
the site at the institute of

3187
02:15:08,310 --> 02:15:05,760
astrophysics in the canary islands and

3188
02:15:11,430 --> 02:15:08,320
uh one of the things that we've been

3189
02:15:12,550 --> 02:15:11,440
asking new members to tell us about is

3190
02:15:13,589 --> 02:15:12,560
would you be

3191
02:15:15,990 --> 02:15:13,599
prepared

3192
02:15:17,709 --> 02:15:16,000
to travel to a flu conference and it is

3193
02:15:21,270 --> 02:15:17,719
something that we're actually looking at

3194
02:15:23,990 --> 02:15:21,280
2014 to actually pull together groups of

3195
02:15:26,629 --> 02:15:24,000
members who are able to travel

3196
02:15:28,550 --> 02:15:26,639
to the observatory to get more hands-on

3197
02:15:30,709 --> 02:15:28,560
and that won't just be with maybe sluice

3198
02:15:33,510 --> 02:15:30,719
telescopes but our new partnership and

3199
02:15:35,990 --> 02:15:33,520
your agreement with uh the emac uh means

3200
02:15:37,510 --> 02:15:36,000
that potentially we'll also members will

3201
02:15:39,270 --> 02:15:37,520
have the opportunity of using some of

3202
02:15:41,350 --> 02:15:39,280
the larger professional telescopes there

3203
02:15:43,750 --> 02:15:41,360
as well

3204
02:15:45,430 --> 02:15:43,760
um on the media side of what you guys do

3205
02:15:47,430 --> 02:15:45,440
paula says jen again on the media side

3206
02:15:49,030 --> 02:15:47,440
of what you guys do

3207
02:15:51,510 --> 02:15:49,040
do you find that more often than not

3208
02:15:53,910 --> 02:15:51,520
you're pitching your story to

3209
02:15:56,149 --> 02:15:53,920
the fox news and the cnns and the

3210
02:15:58,629 --> 02:15:56,159
msnbc's the world to get them to cover

3211
02:16:00,390 --> 02:15:58,639
um the live event or are they

3212
02:16:01,750 --> 02:16:00,400
coming are they coming and covering it

3213
02:16:04,069 --> 02:16:01,760
on their own because it's of interest to

3214
02:16:05,669 --> 02:16:04,079
them kind of how are you generating what

3215
02:16:07,030 --> 02:16:05,679
what's your process for generating kind

3216
02:16:08,390 --> 02:16:07,040
of the media coverage of some of these

3217
02:16:10,550 --> 02:16:08,400
events

3218
02:16:13,030 --> 02:16:10,560
well it's changed jen over the last

3219
02:16:13,830 --> 02:16:13,040
couple of years i mean we started

3220
02:16:15,589 --> 02:16:13,840
um

3221
02:16:18,470 --> 02:16:15,599
trying to raise the profile of these

3222
02:16:20,229 --> 02:16:18,480
things when i became more aware of how

3223
02:16:23,830 --> 02:16:20,239
many of these new earth asteroids were

3224
02:16:25,990 --> 02:16:23,840
being discovered only days before their

3225
02:16:28,629 --> 02:16:26,000
closest approach to earth so we started

3226
02:16:29,669 --> 02:16:28,639
covering these events and at the

3227
02:16:31,750 --> 02:16:29,679
beginning

3228
02:16:34,549 --> 02:16:31,760
we were having to really push for the

3229
02:16:37,110 --> 02:16:34,559
media to pick up the stories but as

3230
02:16:38,469 --> 02:16:37,120
those few years evolved and certainly

3231
02:16:39,990 --> 02:16:38,479
this year

3232
02:16:41,589 --> 02:16:40,000
we have had

3233
02:16:44,150 --> 02:16:41,599
we've had some of the networks

3234
02:16:45,589 --> 02:16:44,160
contacting us asking us

3235
02:16:48,070 --> 02:16:45,599
is there anything on the cards at the

3236
02:16:50,230 --> 02:16:48,080
moment because there seems to be

3237
02:16:51,910 --> 02:16:50,240
a momentum of this whole story and i

3238
02:16:54,150 --> 02:16:51,920
think this workshop has obviously done

3239
02:16:57,270 --> 02:16:54,160
that as well uh but there seems to be a

3240
02:16:58,870 --> 02:16:57,280
momentum uh in the media uh to follow up

3241
02:17:01,669 --> 02:16:58,880
on this story and one of our biggest

3242
02:17:05,030 --> 02:17:01,679
challenges i believe over the next year

3243
02:17:05,990 --> 02:17:05,040
is to maintain that momentum to keep it

3244
02:17:08,070 --> 02:17:06,000
because

3245
02:17:09,990 --> 02:17:08,080
what we did find is i think there was a

3246
02:17:10,950 --> 02:17:10,000
one period earlier on this year where

3247
02:17:14,150 --> 02:17:10,960
there were

3248
02:17:16,790 --> 02:17:14,160
several very more uh passes uh by

3249
02:17:18,870 --> 02:17:16,800
recently discovered asteroids uh within

3250
02:17:21,270 --> 02:17:18,880
a couple of weeks and we did find that

3251
02:17:23,990 --> 02:17:21,280
the media were happy to cover the first

3252
02:17:25,910 --> 02:17:24,000
but on the second the coverage went down

3253
02:17:27,030 --> 02:17:25,920
uh but we're in a period at the moment

3254
02:17:30,469 --> 02:17:27,040
where actually there haven't been any

3255
02:17:32,709 --> 02:17:30,479
recent uh close past uh asteroids

3256
02:17:34,309 --> 02:17:32,719
discovered over the last month or two we

3257
02:17:36,070 --> 02:17:34,319
were hoping there would be so we can

3258
02:17:37,349 --> 02:17:36,080
actually bring you all liars images of

3259
02:17:38,870 --> 02:17:37,359
it tonight but

3260
02:17:43,110 --> 02:17:38,880
unfortunately they never cooperate like

3261
02:17:46,070 --> 02:17:44,549
right it looks like we've got a question

3262
02:17:48,070 --> 02:17:46,080
from carl

3263
02:17:49,830 --> 02:17:48,080
yeah speaking you know since i'm

3264
02:17:51,830 --> 02:17:49,840
involved with target asteroids what is

3265
02:17:53,589 --> 02:17:51,840
the easiest way to basically like

3266
02:17:55,990 --> 02:17:53,599
communicate with the uh

3267
02:17:57,589 --> 02:17:56,000
the members of slu is it uh you know put

3268
02:17:59,509 --> 02:17:57,599
out little bulletins that hey here's an

3269
02:18:09,509 --> 02:17:59,519
object of interest and would be people

3270
02:18:13,669 --> 02:18:12,230
but there are other means that we have

3271
02:18:14,469 --> 02:18:13,679
um of

3272
02:18:16,629 --> 02:18:14,479
uh

3273
02:18:18,309 --> 02:18:16,639
producing pop-ups on the site so anybody

3274
02:18:20,309 --> 02:18:18,319
who's actually on the site watching live

3275
02:18:22,709 --> 02:18:20,319
images at a time we could put a pop-up

3276
02:18:32,070 --> 02:18:22,719
in there and they could immediately

3277
02:18:35,750 --> 02:18:33,750
like putting chrome books in the grade

3278
02:18:38,629 --> 02:18:35,760
schools and maxing the grade school and

3279
02:18:40,230 --> 02:18:38,639
stuff is there any effort to um advocate

3280
02:18:41,990 --> 02:18:40,240
this to school systems to generate

3281
02:18:44,790 --> 02:18:42,000
observatory clubs in order to generate

3282
02:18:48,709 --> 02:18:47,190
we have gone out to schools at various

3283
02:18:50,830 --> 02:18:48,719
points but

3284
02:18:53,669 --> 02:18:50,840
it's been very very difficult

3285
02:18:56,230 --> 02:18:53,679
to to generate the momentum in the

3286
02:18:58,469 --> 02:18:56,240
school itself um

3287
02:19:00,469 --> 02:18:58,479
part of that is about timing uh we

3288
02:19:03,030 --> 02:19:00,479
really want um

3289
02:19:04,469 --> 02:19:03,040
live images into the classroom so some

3290
02:19:17,110 --> 02:19:04,479
schools in the states would have to stay

3291
02:19:21,589 --> 02:19:18,830
great any other any social media

3292
02:19:24,309 --> 02:19:21,599
questions good lin

3293
02:19:25,830 --> 02:19:24,319
um okay so thank you very much paul that

3294
02:19:30,070 --> 02:19:25,840
was great we appreciate you taking the

3295
02:19:35,349 --> 02:19:32,230
and please paul try to rejoin us in

3296
02:19:36,549 --> 02:19:35,359
about uh 50 minutes after our last uh

3297
02:19:39,349 --> 02:19:36,559
two presentations for the group

3298
02:19:40,629 --> 02:19:39,359
discussion if you can just call back in

3299
02:19:42,790 --> 02:19:40,639
certainly thank you

3300
02:19:44,870 --> 02:19:42,800
all right so uh now before we get into

3301
02:19:46,389 --> 02:19:44,880
our last two presenters which is chris

3302
02:19:48,630 --> 02:19:46,399
lewicki from planetary resources and

3303
02:19:51,349 --> 02:19:48,640
andy lamoire from topcoder i want to

3304
02:19:53,030 --> 02:19:51,359
welcome lynn buko from the center of

3305
02:19:55,670 --> 02:19:53,040
excellence for collaborative innovation

3306
02:19:57,830 --> 02:19:55,680
which is the organization for nasa that

3307
02:19:59,270 --> 02:19:57,840
uh helps not only to

3308
02:20:01,510 --> 02:19:59,280
run our own internal prizes and

3309
02:20:03,830 --> 02:20:01,520
crowdsourcing activities that we do at

3310
02:20:05,030 --> 02:20:03,840
nasa but also acts as a

3311
02:20:06,469 --> 02:20:05,040
center of excellence for the rest of

3312
02:20:09,110 --> 02:20:06,479
government and helps the rest of

3313
02:20:10,870 --> 02:20:09,120
government uh figure out how to do these

3314
02:20:12,230 --> 02:20:10,880
new activities as well

3315
02:20:13,990 --> 02:20:12,240
she's going to give us a little bit more

3316
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:14,000
detail and something we're announcing

3317
02:20:18,790 --> 02:20:16,160
here today which is the first new

3318
02:20:20,469 --> 02:20:18,800
partnership um associated with the

3319
02:20:22,309 --> 02:20:20,479
asteroid grand challenge in the area of

3320
02:20:23,830 --> 02:20:22,319
crowdsourcing and citizen science it's

3321
02:20:25,110 --> 02:20:23,840
actually being announced via press

3322
02:20:27,670 --> 02:20:25,120
release in the next

3323
02:20:30,469 --> 02:20:27,680
eight minutes um both on nasa site and

3324
02:20:31,670 --> 02:20:30,479
on planetary resources site so uh we'll

3325
02:20:33,110 --> 02:20:31,680
tell you a little bit more about what

3326
02:20:35,030 --> 02:20:33,120
this activity is going to be what this

3327
02:20:36,230 --> 02:20:35,040
partnership is lynn will talk a little

3328
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:36,240
bit more about what it looks like at a

3329
02:20:39,429 --> 02:20:37,920
high level before chris talks about it

3330
02:20:41,830 --> 02:20:39,439
in much more detail

3331
02:20:42,710 --> 02:20:41,840
and then andy a bit from the top coder

3332
02:20:44,630 --> 02:20:42,720
angle

3333
02:20:46,630 --> 02:20:44,640
this is also to say that nasa wants to

3334
02:20:47,830 --> 02:20:46,640
partner with a lot of people in a lot of

3335
02:20:49,110 --> 02:20:47,840
different interesting ways in the grand

3336
02:20:51,910 --> 02:20:49,120
challenge so this is the first of

3337
02:20:54,389 --> 02:20:51,920
partnerships but uh this guy is looking

3338
02:20:55,990 --> 02:20:54,399
for many many space act agreements so if

3339
02:20:58,230 --> 02:20:56,000
other folks are interested in partnering

3340
02:20:59,990 --> 02:20:58,240
um with nasa on the grand challenge um

3341
02:21:01,750 --> 02:21:00,000
we're looking to do many more types of

3342
02:21:03,750 --> 02:21:01,760
partnerships like this so please feel

3343
02:21:05,510 --> 02:21:03,760
free to work with jason on those so with

3344
02:21:07,270 --> 02:21:05,520
that being said lynn

3345
02:21:09,429 --> 02:21:07,280
all right well let me add a little bit

3346
02:21:11,670 --> 02:21:09,439
jen gave you the reader's digest version

3347
02:21:13,429 --> 02:21:11,680
of what i was going to talk about so let

3348
02:21:14,950 --> 02:21:13,439
me get into just a little bit more

3349
02:21:16,790 --> 02:21:14,960
detail

3350
02:21:19,190 --> 02:21:16,800
i have the distinct privilege of

3351
02:21:21,190 --> 02:21:19,200
managing the day-to-day operations of

3352
02:21:22,710 --> 02:21:21,200
the nasa center of excellence for

3353
02:21:26,309 --> 02:21:22,720
collaborative innovation that's a

3354
02:21:27,349 --> 02:21:26,319
mouthful we call it cosy

3355
02:21:31,110 --> 02:21:27,359
that

3356
02:21:33,110 --> 02:21:31,120
organization is a true collaborative

3357
02:21:35,110 --> 02:21:33,120
organization

3358
02:21:37,750 --> 02:21:35,120
among the the

3359
02:21:39,429 --> 02:21:37,760
organization is supported by our human

3360
02:21:42,790 --> 02:21:39,439
exploration office

3361
02:21:44,790 --> 02:21:42,800
jen's oct organization

3362
02:21:46,710 --> 02:21:44,800
and the human health and performance

3363
02:21:49,510 --> 02:21:46,720
directorate here at the johnson space

3364
02:21:52,309 --> 02:21:49,520
center so as challenging as that makes

3365
02:21:54,790 --> 02:21:52,319
my job occasionally to have three bosses

3366
02:21:57,670 --> 02:21:54,800
it is also part and parcel of the reason

3367
02:21:59,110 --> 02:21:57,680
why the organization i think has been so

3368
02:22:01,190 --> 02:21:59,120
successful

3369
02:22:03,030 --> 02:22:01,200
nasa created the center of excellence

3370
02:22:05,110 --> 02:22:03,040
because of the groundbreaking work dr

3371
02:22:08,150 --> 02:22:05,120
jeff davis was doing here at the johnson

3372
02:22:09,990 --> 02:22:08,160
space center using crowdsourcing to

3373
02:22:12,790 --> 02:22:10,000
advance efforts in the space life

3374
02:22:15,510 --> 02:22:12,800
sciences discipline and just to qualify

3375
02:22:17,990 --> 02:22:15,520
a little bit i love walking into a room

3376
02:22:20,790 --> 02:22:18,000
where crowdsourcing is actually being

3377
02:22:22,870 --> 02:22:20,800
used there was a definition of it

3378
02:22:25,670 --> 02:22:22,880
for us specifically i just wanted to

3379
02:22:29,590 --> 02:22:25,680
refine the definition just a little bit

3380
02:22:32,790 --> 02:22:29,600
because for us it really means we run

3381
02:22:34,710 --> 02:22:32,800
competitions challenges contests we kind

3382
02:22:36,870 --> 02:22:34,720
of use those terms interchangeably and

3383
02:22:39,429 --> 02:22:36,880
sometimes confusingly i know

3384
02:22:41,750 --> 02:22:39,439
in large established communities where

3385
02:22:44,870 --> 02:22:41,760
there is a vendor who curates that

3386
02:22:47,110 --> 02:22:44,880
community and we pay only the winners

3387
02:22:49,510 --> 02:22:47,120
for the solutions that we choose to pay

3388
02:22:51,910 --> 02:22:49,520
for so when i talk crowdsourcing for

3389
02:22:53,510 --> 02:22:51,920
cosi that's the specific definition for

3390
02:22:55,510 --> 02:22:53,520
us

3391
02:22:58,630 --> 02:22:55,520
while jeff was down here doing this

3392
02:23:00,950 --> 02:22:58,640
groundbreaking work in his disciplinary

3393
02:23:03,750 --> 02:23:00,960
area jason kruzan and the human

3394
02:23:05,910 --> 02:23:03,760
exploration office at headquarters now

3395
02:23:08,469 --> 02:23:05,920
our advanced exploration systems

3396
02:23:11,110 --> 02:23:08,479
director became intrigued by this

3397
02:23:13,510 --> 02:23:11,120
practice of crowdsourcing and he

3398
02:23:16,790 --> 02:23:13,520
launched efforts to use it to address

3399
02:23:18,710 --> 02:23:16,800
complex algorithmic data processing and

3400
02:23:20,710 --> 02:23:18,720
software development efforts

3401
02:23:22,790 --> 02:23:20,720
because of the highly visible work jeff

3402
02:23:24,870 --> 02:23:22,800
was doing and jason was doing at

3403
02:23:26,469 --> 02:23:24,880
headquarters they were asked by the

3404
02:23:28,790 --> 02:23:26,479
white house office of science and

3405
02:23:30,870 --> 02:23:28,800
technology policy if nasa would be

3406
02:23:33,429 --> 02:23:30,880
willing to create an organization to

3407
02:23:35,990 --> 02:23:33,439
help other federal agencies capitalize

3408
02:23:38,710 --> 02:23:36,000
on our lessons learned and our best

3409
02:23:42,030 --> 02:23:38,720
practices and if we wouldn't be willing

3410
02:23:44,630 --> 02:23:42,040
to sort of enable their use of of

3411
02:23:46,550 --> 02:23:44,640
crowdsourcing to facilitate their

3412
02:23:47,590 --> 02:23:46,560
mission so they didn't have to reinvent

3413
02:23:49,429 --> 02:23:47,600
the wheel

3414
02:23:51,429 --> 02:23:49,439
believe it or not the government really

3415
02:23:54,150 --> 02:23:51,439
didn't want to reinvent the wheel they

3416
02:23:56,469 --> 02:23:54,160
wanted agencies to take advantage of

3417
02:23:58,550 --> 02:23:56,479
this technique to capitalize on it and

3418
02:24:02,150 --> 02:23:58,560
start using it and infusing it within

3419
02:24:04,230 --> 02:24:02,160
their own agencies so jeff and jason ask

3420
02:24:05,590 --> 02:24:04,240
bill gerstenmaier do you know who bill

3421
02:24:07,349 --> 02:24:05,600
is right

3422
02:24:09,270 --> 02:24:07,359
if he would support the creation of our

3423
02:24:11,670 --> 02:24:09,280
little organization and it's a little

3424
02:24:13,910 --> 02:24:11,680
organization indeed and of course his

3425
02:24:15,830 --> 02:24:13,920
specific question to jason was what does

3426
02:24:18,469 --> 02:24:15,840
nasa get out of this

3427
02:24:20,469 --> 02:24:18,479
jason eloquently answered that we get to

3428
02:24:22,950 --> 02:24:20,479
learn from others mistakes that's always

3429
02:24:25,190 --> 02:24:22,960
nice before we make them ourselves and

3430
02:24:28,309 --> 02:24:25,200
we can be so much smarter about how we

3431
02:24:29,670 --> 02:24:28,319
use these techniques internal to nasa

3432
02:24:31,910 --> 02:24:29,680
and i'm here to tell you that we've

3433
02:24:34,790 --> 02:24:31,920
learned a lot

3434
02:24:37,349 --> 02:24:34,800
um we are now as of this month space

3435
02:24:39,110 --> 02:24:37,359
station is 15 cosi is two we're two

3436
02:24:40,710 --> 02:24:39,120
years old we're out of our infancy and

3437
02:24:43,030 --> 02:24:40,720
into our toddlership

3438
02:24:44,950 --> 02:24:43,040
um so far we have worked or are

3439
02:24:46,710 --> 02:24:44,960
currently working with the u.s patent

3440
02:24:48,870 --> 02:24:46,720
and trade office the centers for

3441
02:24:51,590 --> 02:24:48,880
medicare and medicaid services the

3442
02:24:53,910 --> 02:24:51,600
office of personnel management epa

3443
02:24:57,110 --> 02:24:53,920
department of energy and the united

3444
02:24:59,590 --> 02:24:57,120
states association for international

3445
02:25:01,590 --> 02:24:59,600
development or u.s aid

3446
02:25:03,429 --> 02:25:01,600
but it's important and always important

3447
02:25:04,309 --> 02:25:03,439
for us to come back to gerstenmeier's

3448
02:25:06,070 --> 02:25:04,319
question

3449
02:25:08,630 --> 02:25:06,080
because cosi isn't just about helping

3450
02:25:10,710 --> 02:25:08,640
other federal agencies core to our

3451
02:25:13,750 --> 02:25:10,720
mission is to ensure direct benefit to

3452
02:25:16,710 --> 02:25:13,760
nasa and its projects and programs from

3453
02:25:19,110 --> 02:25:16,720
the use of this what i consider a really

3454
02:25:20,870 --> 02:25:19,120
promising technique

3455
02:25:23,030 --> 02:25:20,880
and it is promising

3456
02:25:24,630 --> 02:25:23,040
i'd be happy to share more details and i

3457
02:25:26,630 --> 02:25:24,640
wanted to introduce steve raider my

3458
02:25:28,870 --> 02:25:26,640
deputy sitting in the audience if you

3459
02:25:30,389 --> 02:25:28,880
want details of what specifically we've

3460
02:25:32,550 --> 02:25:30,399
done with these other agencies what

3461
02:25:34,790 --> 02:25:32,560
challenges we've run ourselves i'd be

3462
02:25:37,510 --> 02:25:34,800
happy to share them jen is very eloquent

3463
02:25:39,110 --> 02:25:37,520
in sharing what we've done so so far

3464
02:25:42,469 --> 02:25:39,120
but i wanted to talk about one of the

3465
02:25:45,030 --> 02:25:42,479
primary tools that cosi uses it from its

3466
02:25:46,710 --> 02:25:45,040
tool kit and that tool is called the

3467
02:25:49,270 --> 02:25:46,720
nasa tournament lab

3468
02:25:51,750 --> 02:25:49,280
the ntl was a result of a contract with

3469
02:25:54,150 --> 02:25:51,760
harvard university because we were

3470
02:25:56,469 --> 02:25:54,160
really interested in furthering research

3471
02:25:58,790 --> 02:25:56,479
in the use of crowdsourcing and open

3472
02:26:00,469 --> 02:25:58,800
innovation practices particularly in the

3473
02:26:01,590 --> 02:26:00,479
software and algorithm development

3474
02:26:03,990 --> 02:26:01,600
domain

3475
02:26:07,110 --> 02:26:04,000
harvard established a subcontract with

3476
02:26:10,550 --> 02:26:07,120
topcoder recently acquired by imperio

3477
02:26:13,110 --> 02:26:10,560
who now has a community of over 600 000

3478
02:26:15,750 --> 02:26:13,120
developers that we can tap into

3479
02:26:18,630 --> 02:26:15,760
that's a large international community

3480
02:26:21,190 --> 02:26:18,640
of coding talent who in large part share

3481
02:26:22,710 --> 02:26:21,200
the common language of math

3482
02:26:25,190 --> 02:26:22,720
we're just finishing up two pretty

3483
02:26:27,670 --> 02:26:25,200
exciting algorithm contests one was for

3484
02:26:29,750 --> 02:26:27,680
usaid and their tech challenge for

3485
02:26:33,030 --> 02:26:29,760
atrocity prevention it's been

3486
02:26:35,830 --> 02:26:33,040
interesting to look at as diverse as our

3487
02:26:38,870 --> 02:26:35,840
government missions are the application

3488
02:26:41,910 --> 02:26:38,880
of this technique has had some pretty

3489
02:26:43,910 --> 02:26:41,920
universal benefits regardless of what

3490
02:26:46,389 --> 02:26:43,920
that particular mission is

3491
02:26:48,469 --> 02:26:46,399
usaid has in hand now five winning

3492
02:26:50,230 --> 02:26:48,479
algorith algorithms

3493
02:26:52,630 --> 02:26:50,240
that would greatly assist them in

3494
02:26:55,429 --> 02:26:52,640
developing the ability to actually

3495
02:26:58,389 --> 02:26:55,439
predict the occurrence of human induced

3496
02:27:00,230 --> 02:26:58,399
atrocities they went into this not

3497
02:27:02,790 --> 02:27:00,240
really knowing whether they would get a

3498
02:27:05,270 --> 02:27:02,800
result or not and have been pretty

3499
02:27:07,590 --> 02:27:05,280
excited about the outcome

3500
02:27:10,309 --> 02:27:07,600
nasa just ran a challenge called the

3501
02:27:12,469 --> 02:27:10,319
collective minds and machines challenge

3502
02:27:14,710 --> 02:27:12,479
that really is cut was based on a lot of

3503
02:27:17,429 --> 02:27:14,720
what you've been talking about here the

3504
02:27:19,750 --> 02:27:17,439
collective minds was humans who were

3505
02:27:20,950 --> 02:27:19,760
looking at imagery of

3506
02:27:23,510 --> 02:27:20,960
of

3507
02:27:25,190 --> 02:27:23,520
archaeological potential archaeological

3508
02:27:27,190 --> 02:27:25,200
interest

3509
02:27:29,590 --> 02:27:27,200
and then figuring out how we could take

3510
02:27:30,550 --> 02:27:29,600
that data set and apply machine learning

3511
02:27:32,230 --> 02:27:30,560
to it

3512
02:27:34,630 --> 02:27:32,240
harvard is still putting together the

3513
02:27:39,030 --> 02:27:34,640
final analysis on the winning algorithms

3514
02:27:41,910 --> 02:27:39,040
we had too but in my extremely extremely

3515
02:27:44,870 --> 02:27:41,920
simplified version we now have in hand

3516
02:27:47,630 --> 02:27:44,880
two promising algorithms potentially

3517
02:27:50,870 --> 02:27:47,640
demonstrating that instead of relying on

3518
02:27:53,030 --> 02:27:50,880
2.3 million imagery tags to identify

3519
02:27:55,349 --> 02:27:53,040
specific targets of interest

3520
02:27:58,710 --> 02:27:55,359
the same result can actually occur with

3521
02:28:00,550 --> 02:27:58,720
only 10 000. that's a pretty significant

3522
02:28:02,150 --> 02:28:00,560
result

3523
02:28:04,950 --> 02:28:02,160
so um

3524
02:28:07,670 --> 02:28:04,960
cosi is at its two-year mark and we

3525
02:28:09,750 --> 02:28:07,680
build on these successes and with that

3526
02:28:11,830 --> 02:28:09,760
it gives me great pleasure to announce

3527
02:28:13,750 --> 02:28:11,840
that nasa has entered into a

3528
02:28:15,830 --> 02:28:13,760
non-reimbursable space act agreement

3529
02:28:17,590 --> 02:28:15,840
with planetary resources

3530
02:28:19,750 --> 02:28:17,600
to develop crowdsourced software

3531
02:28:21,990 --> 02:28:19,760
solutions to enhance detection of

3532
02:28:24,230 --> 02:28:22,000
near-earth objects we're going to be

3533
02:28:26,550 --> 02:28:24,240
able to apply what we've learned working

3534
02:28:29,190 --> 02:28:26,560
with chris wiki and there is a lot of

3535
02:28:31,270 --> 02:28:29,200
excitement around it

3536
02:28:33,270 --> 02:28:31,280
as jen already announced the agreement

3537
02:28:35,349 --> 02:28:33,280
is nasa's first partnership associated

3538
02:28:37,590 --> 02:28:35,359
with the asteroid grand challenge and

3539
02:28:40,469 --> 02:28:37,600
it's really asteroids and near-earth

3540
02:28:42,790 --> 02:28:40,479
objects why you all are here i want to

3541
02:28:46,070 --> 02:28:42,800
thank jen for the opportunity to talk a

3542
02:28:47,990 --> 02:28:46,080
little bit about cosi and i'm excited

3543
02:28:49,910 --> 02:28:48,000
and we'll get off the stage so chris can

3544
02:28:51,429 --> 02:28:49,920
take the stage and really give you some

3545
02:28:52,309 --> 02:28:51,439
details about where we're going with

3546
02:28:55,990 --> 02:28:52,319
this

3547
02:28:57,670 --> 02:28:56,000
we'll be working with harvard

3548
02:29:00,630 --> 02:28:57,680
top coder

3549
02:29:02,790 --> 02:29:00,640
nasa science mission directorate oct

3550
02:29:04,710 --> 02:29:02,800
this is going to be an across nasa

3551
02:29:11,030 --> 02:29:04,720
effort so cosi's looking forward to

3552
02:29:15,110 --> 02:29:12,870
and with that uh we'll toss it over to

3553
02:29:18,150 --> 02:29:15,120
chris um if you want to uh start your

3554
02:29:19,990 --> 02:29:18,160
presentation thank you chris

3555
02:29:22,790 --> 02:29:20,000
all right thanks jen

3556
02:29:24,550 --> 02:29:22,800
and thanks for the introduction uh on uh

3557
02:29:27,110 --> 02:29:24,560
the space act agreement uh that we're

3558
02:29:30,309 --> 02:29:27,120
underway uh today on in partnering with

3559
02:29:32,230 --> 02:29:30,319
nasa in uh using crowdsourcing to help

3560
02:29:33,349 --> 02:29:32,240
identify even more on earth objects that

3561
02:29:35,910 --> 02:29:33,359
are out there

3562
02:29:38,070 --> 02:29:35,920
so i wanted to give you a background of

3563
02:29:40,309 --> 02:29:38,080
exactly what this project is

3564
02:29:42,870 --> 02:29:40,319
a portion of it involves work that we're

3565
02:29:44,790 --> 02:29:42,880
announcing today with nasa a portion

3566
02:29:47,030 --> 02:29:44,800
involves work that planetary resources

3567
02:29:48,790 --> 02:29:47,040
is doing privately with the adler

3568
02:29:50,389 --> 02:29:48,800
planetarium in his universe and of

3569
02:29:51,990 --> 02:29:50,399
course this work wouldn't be possible

3570
02:29:54,790 --> 02:29:52,000
without the support of a number of

3571
02:29:56,309 --> 02:29:54,800
different places which i will talk along

3572
02:29:59,030 --> 02:29:56,319
the way

3573
02:30:00,950 --> 02:29:59,040
so ultimately what we're interested in

3574
02:30:02,870 --> 02:30:00,960
is discovering more asteroids being able

3575
02:30:05,270 --> 02:30:02,880
to track them more accurately being able

3576
02:30:07,510 --> 02:30:05,280
to do that more efficiently and make the

3577
02:30:10,150 --> 02:30:07,520
best use of the resources that we've had

3578
02:30:12,870 --> 02:30:10,160
out there today so that we can apply new

3579
02:30:14,469 --> 02:30:12,880
resources more efficiently and despite

3580
02:30:16,870 --> 02:30:14,479
all the progress that we've seen and the

3581
02:30:18,790 --> 02:30:16,880
fact that ninety percent of the solar

3582
02:30:21,830 --> 02:30:18,800
system has been discovered since the

3583
02:30:24,230 --> 02:30:21,840
year 2000 uh most of this stuff happens

3584
02:30:26,150 --> 02:30:24,240
pretty late pretty close to earth uh

3585
02:30:27,990 --> 02:30:26,160
it's not until they get close enough and

3586
02:30:30,309 --> 02:30:28,000
bright enough uh that the surveys can

3587
02:30:32,389 --> 02:30:30,319
find them and of course this is as much

3588
02:30:34,950 --> 02:30:32,399
art as it is science point pulling this

3589
02:30:37,270 --> 02:30:34,960
data out of the weeds

3590
02:30:39,349 --> 02:30:37,280
most of these very small asteroids like

3591
02:30:41,510 --> 02:30:39,359
the one we experienced earlier this year

3592
02:30:43,750 --> 02:30:41,520
over the city of chelyabinsk

3593
02:30:46,230 --> 02:30:43,760
remain undetected and

3594
02:30:47,990 --> 02:30:46,240
there is a lot of work to go here yet so

3595
02:30:50,550 --> 02:30:48,000
how can we for

3596
02:30:52,309 --> 02:30:50,560
very little funds just make an

3597
02:30:54,870 --> 02:30:52,319
incremental increase in what we're able

3598
02:30:57,110 --> 02:30:54,880
to do here and open up the potential for

3599
02:30:58,870 --> 02:30:57,120
a lot of activity to come out of this

3600
02:31:01,910 --> 02:30:58,880
so we're in the crowdsourcing session

3601
02:31:04,630 --> 02:31:01,920
today and this is an idea that we came

3602
02:31:06,550 --> 02:31:04,640
up with which was a perfect application

3603
02:31:08,469 --> 02:31:06,560
of the cognitive surplus that we have on

3604
02:31:11,429 --> 02:31:08,479
the planet and the desire for everyone

3605
02:31:13,270 --> 02:31:11,439
out there to help nasa to help private

3606
02:31:15,349 --> 02:31:13,280
industry and to really help the world

3607
02:31:17,510 --> 02:31:15,359
take on these challenges and do better

3608
02:31:19,349 --> 02:31:17,520
than we've done to date i was speaking

3609
02:31:21,830 --> 02:31:19,359
with tim sparr the director of the

3610
02:31:23,429 --> 02:31:21,840
planet center about this project uh

3611
02:31:25,510 --> 02:31:23,439
earlier this year

3612
02:31:27,110 --> 02:31:25,520
and uh also the work that jose galeche

3613
02:31:29,830 --> 02:31:27,120
talked about today with

3614
02:31:31,270 --> 02:31:29,840
light curves and planetary resources was

3615
02:31:32,870 --> 02:31:31,280
exploring what we might be able to do in

3616
02:31:35,110 --> 02:31:32,880
this area and this really this project

3617
02:31:37,990 --> 02:31:35,120
really came out of that discussion

3618
02:31:39,830 --> 02:31:38,000
so we want to harness the crowd to find

3619
02:31:42,710 --> 02:31:39,840
the gems in the data

3620
02:31:44,389 --> 02:31:42,720
find the things that the surveys haven't

3621
02:31:46,309 --> 02:31:44,399
found

3622
02:31:48,790 --> 02:31:46,319
machines of course are programmed by

3623
02:31:50,870 --> 02:31:48,800
humans and humans are fallible but

3624
02:31:52,389 --> 02:31:50,880
humans are a lot better at recognizing

3625
02:31:53,910 --> 02:31:52,399
patterns than the machines are and

3626
02:31:55,750 --> 02:31:53,920
they're of course only as good as we

3627
02:31:57,750 --> 02:31:55,760
program them to

3628
02:31:59,190 --> 02:31:57,760
as was mentioned with regards to the

3629
02:32:00,469 --> 02:31:59,200
nasa agreement and what lynn was

3630
02:32:01,910 --> 02:32:00,479
describing is

3631
02:32:04,230 --> 02:32:01,920
we're going to be working with the nasa

3632
02:32:06,309 --> 02:32:04,240
tournament lab to have algorithm

3633
02:32:07,910 --> 02:32:06,319
challenges as has been done several

3634
02:32:10,070 --> 02:32:07,920
times before with the national

3635
02:32:11,750 --> 02:32:10,080
tournament lab and we'll get into more

3636
02:32:15,030 --> 02:32:11,760
detail on that

3637
02:32:17,910 --> 02:32:15,040
we want to improve the efficiency by re

3638
02:32:20,550 --> 02:32:17,920
reducing the false positives and increa

3639
02:32:23,830 --> 02:32:20,560
increase the detection capability and

3640
02:32:25,349 --> 02:32:23,840
the sensitivity of these uh data sets

3641
02:32:26,630 --> 02:32:25,359
without really having to to build

3642
02:32:28,150 --> 02:32:26,640
anything new

3643
02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:28,160
and this is something that we can do

3644
02:32:32,550 --> 02:32:30,960
because with groups like xenoverse and

3645
02:32:35,670 --> 02:32:32,560
other crowdsourcing platform there are

3646
02:32:37,670 --> 02:32:35,680
nearly a million people who are doing

3647
02:32:39,830 --> 02:32:37,680
peer-reviewed level of science on

3648
02:32:41,190 --> 02:32:39,840
different projects every day

3649
02:32:43,590 --> 02:32:41,200
probably the most famous of which in

3650
02:32:46,630 --> 02:32:43,600
this area is the galaxy zoo which has

3651
02:32:47,590 --> 02:32:46,640
been a breakaway successful project

3652
02:32:49,349 --> 02:32:47,600
so

3653
02:32:51,270 --> 02:32:49,359
the audience is probably very familiar

3654
02:32:53,910 --> 02:32:51,280
with how it is that we detect asteroids

3655
02:32:56,389 --> 02:32:53,920
but i just wanted to give a basic review

3656
02:32:59,110 --> 02:32:56,399
to remind you how this works you're

3657
02:33:01,590 --> 02:32:59,120
looking for things that move in the sky

3658
02:33:03,750 --> 02:33:01,600
stuff that are not static like the stars

3659
02:33:06,870 --> 02:33:03,760
so terrestrial telescopes and even space

3660
02:33:10,070 --> 02:33:06,880
based telescopes take several images

3661
02:33:12,230 --> 02:33:10,080
over time of the same patch of of sky

3662
02:33:13,110 --> 02:33:12,240
and then look to see the objects that

3663
02:33:14,710 --> 02:33:13,120
move

3664
02:33:16,870 --> 02:33:14,720
algorithm is usually applied in this

3665
02:33:18,950 --> 02:33:16,880
product project to find the

3666
02:33:22,150 --> 02:33:18,960
moving object in this and then a human

3667
02:33:23,990 --> 02:33:22,160
operator really goes in and cleans it up

3668
02:33:25,990 --> 02:33:24,000
they verify what the algorithm found

3669
02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:26,000
with high confidence uh they can throw

3670
02:33:30,150 --> 02:33:28,000
some out of the spurious data and it's

3671
02:33:32,150 --> 02:33:30,160
really their training their intelligence

3672
02:33:34,389 --> 02:33:32,160
and their human pattern recognition that

3673
02:33:36,790 --> 02:33:34,399
allows them to do that pretty quickly

3674
02:33:38,309 --> 02:33:36,800
and pretty accurately and ultimately

3675
02:33:40,389 --> 02:33:38,319
this data is reported to the miners

3676
02:33:42,790 --> 02:33:40,399
planet center and they do the great work

3677
02:33:44,710 --> 02:33:42,800
they do and report and collate these

3678
02:33:47,030 --> 02:33:44,720
results and take into all the different

3679
02:33:49,510 --> 02:33:47,040
factors into result and compute orbits

3680
02:33:51,750 --> 02:33:49,520
and the project continues every day of

3681
02:33:52,710 --> 02:33:51,760
the week every night of the week year on

3682
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:52,720
year

3683
02:33:56,230 --> 02:33:54,800
until we find them all before they find

3684
02:33:58,790 --> 02:33:56,240
us first

3685
02:34:00,309 --> 02:33:58,800
so a typical one of these pictures looks

3686
02:34:01,910 --> 02:34:00,319
like this

3687
02:34:03,429 --> 02:34:01,920
i don't have the animated version of

3688
02:34:04,309 --> 02:34:03,439
this up but if it were animated you

3689
02:34:06,710 --> 02:34:04,319
would see

3690
02:34:08,550 --> 02:34:06,720
a little bit less than 10 uh asteroids

3691
02:34:10,309 --> 02:34:08,560
that are moving through the scene and in

3692
02:34:12,630 --> 02:34:10,319
many cases the algorithm really finds

3693
02:34:14,630 --> 02:34:12,640
all of them but uh from a human

3694
02:34:17,030 --> 02:34:14,640
standpoint we could really examine this

3695
02:34:18,230 --> 02:34:17,040
data to to try and determine is it

3696
02:34:19,590 --> 02:34:18,240
complete

3697
02:34:21,590 --> 02:34:19,600
and that's really what we're going to be

3698
02:34:23,349 --> 02:34:21,600
doing in the first part of this

3699
02:34:25,750 --> 02:34:23,359
crowdsourcing challenge which is the

3700
02:34:28,150 --> 02:34:25,760
part where human eyeballs are going to

3701
02:34:29,830 --> 02:34:28,160
look at data and find everything that

3702
02:34:32,230 --> 02:34:29,840
there is to

3703
02:34:34,710 --> 02:34:32,240
so the challenges uh in the overall

3704
02:34:36,150 --> 02:34:34,720
project is that these pipelines and the

3705
02:34:39,030 --> 02:34:36,160
algorithms that are run to date are kind

3706
02:34:41,030 --> 02:34:39,040
of conservatively tuned we don't want uh

3707
02:34:42,469 --> 02:34:41,040
someone spending all night throwing out

3708
02:34:45,190 --> 02:34:42,479
a thousand things that weren't an

3709
02:34:46,630 --> 02:34:45,200
asteroid trying to find the 12 that were

3710
02:34:48,950 --> 02:34:46,640
when automatically they might just be

3711
02:34:50,790 --> 02:34:48,960
able to say 10 and they can find with 90

3712
02:34:52,950 --> 02:34:50,800
percent efficiency so we tend to

3713
02:34:55,510 --> 02:34:52,960
conserve them tune them conservatively

3714
02:34:57,270 --> 02:34:55,520
so we can minimize the humans work

3715
02:34:59,670 --> 02:34:57,280
the code that's used in this some of it

3716
02:35:01,830 --> 02:34:59,680
is state of the art some of it's old but

3717
02:35:04,230 --> 02:35:01,840
in many cases it's drawn upon legacy

3718
02:35:06,230 --> 02:35:04,240
astronomy code that was developed either

3719
02:35:08,469 --> 02:35:06,240
for this purpose or for others

3720
02:35:10,550 --> 02:35:08,479
but as we know code and algorithm and

3721
02:35:12,309 --> 02:35:10,560
detection capability is evolving all the

3722
02:35:14,309 --> 02:35:12,319
time

3723
02:35:17,110 --> 02:35:14,319
the other part of this is that most of

3724
02:35:18,790 --> 02:35:17,120
this data is acquired it's looked at

3725
02:35:20,870 --> 02:35:18,800
precisely once by the algorithm and

3726
02:35:23,190 --> 02:35:20,880
operator and then it's archived never to

3727
02:35:25,190 --> 02:35:23,200
be looked at again and occasionally we

3728
02:35:27,830 --> 02:35:25,200
go back to a night to look at a

3729
02:35:30,070 --> 02:35:27,840
follow-up but for the vast majority of

3730
02:35:33,030 --> 02:35:30,080
this data it served its useful purpose

3731
02:35:35,190 --> 02:35:33,040
in life and it sits on spinning disks or

3732
02:35:36,950 --> 02:35:35,200
tape or cds

3733
02:35:39,429 --> 02:35:36,960
the process of analyzing this stuff is

3734
02:35:40,790 --> 02:35:39,439
very compute intensive and it's limited

3735
02:35:43,270 --> 02:35:40,800
in this applications of how you could

3736
02:35:45,590 --> 02:35:43,280
apply the stuff in space uh on a

3737
02:35:47,110 --> 02:35:45,600
embedded system in a spacecraft and then

3738
02:35:49,030 --> 02:35:47,120
as was mentioned in this session the

3739
02:35:51,110 --> 02:35:49,040
ability to access the raw data for

3740
02:35:53,270 --> 02:35:51,120
others to take another look at is not

3741
02:35:55,190 --> 02:35:53,280
something that's openly available and we

3742
02:35:56,550 --> 02:35:55,200
would love to make this data available

3743
02:35:57,910 --> 02:35:56,560
for everyone who would like to take a

3744
02:36:00,790 --> 02:35:57,920
look at it

3745
02:36:03,670 --> 02:36:00,800
so the benefits of this is by increasing

3746
02:36:06,710 --> 02:36:03,680
the detection capability we can find

3747
02:36:09,270 --> 02:36:06,720
smaller lower albedo darker more distant

3748
02:36:11,750 --> 02:36:09,280
objects we can get faster analysis of

3749
02:36:13,510 --> 02:36:11,760
global data data sets by making it more

3750
02:36:15,349 --> 02:36:13,520
compute efficient

3751
02:36:17,190 --> 02:36:15,359
also this improves space-based surveys

3752
02:36:19,830 --> 02:36:17,200
by being able to get more of the good

3753
02:36:21,349 --> 02:36:19,840
data to the ground and not send raw data

3754
02:36:23,429 --> 02:36:21,359
and then having this data online of

3755
02:36:25,830 --> 02:36:23,439
course allows all the scientific inquiry

3756
02:36:28,230 --> 02:36:25,840
that we can have uh with open data sets

3757
02:36:29,830 --> 02:36:28,240
and access to that especially with the

3758
02:36:32,309 --> 02:36:29,840
computing capability that's available

3759
02:36:33,590 --> 02:36:32,319
today versus 10 years ago

3760
02:36:35,830 --> 02:36:33,600
we've developed a list of science

3761
02:36:37,830 --> 02:36:35,840
priorities uh between

3762
02:36:39,830 --> 02:36:37,840
the catalina sky survey team from which

3763
02:36:41,510 --> 02:36:39,840
we draw the initial data set the

3764
02:36:43,349 --> 02:36:41,520
xenoverse team and the minor planet

3765
02:36:45,429 --> 02:36:43,359
center and i'll let you read through

3766
02:36:48,150 --> 02:36:45,439
this ordered list primarily what we're

3767
02:36:49,910 --> 02:36:48,160
interested in is completeness making

3768
02:36:52,230 --> 02:36:49,920
sure that we have a raw data set that

3769
02:36:54,710 --> 02:36:52,240
can be used as the basis of an algorithm

3770
02:36:56,790 --> 02:36:54,720
challenge so that when an algorithm

3771
02:36:58,710 --> 02:36:56,800
is testing against this data set we know

3772
02:37:00,710 --> 02:36:58,720
that what it's found is indeed something

3773
02:37:03,030 --> 02:37:00,720
that's real and not an artifact that

3774
02:37:04,870 --> 02:37:03,040
wasn't picked up by the original survey

3775
02:37:06,710 --> 02:37:04,880
there's another a number of other

3776
02:37:08,150 --> 02:37:06,720
opportunities that i won't go into

3777
02:37:10,630 --> 02:37:08,160
detail today

3778
02:37:12,870 --> 02:37:10,640
but we have a poster agu coming up here

3779
02:37:14,790 --> 02:37:12,880
next month that we can go into this but

3780
02:37:18,230 --> 02:37:14,800
just lots of opportunity by taking a

3781
02:37:23,670 --> 02:37:20,790
in the process of the asteroid zoo and

3782
02:37:26,070 --> 02:37:23,680
other zoos that the universe maintains

3783
02:37:28,630 --> 02:37:26,080
it's as much about the data set as it is

3784
02:37:30,870 --> 02:37:28,640
about the people and the performance of

3785
02:37:32,790 --> 02:37:30,880
individuals to perform the task you're

3786
02:37:34,070 --> 02:37:32,800
asking them to and having confidence

3787
02:37:36,870 --> 02:37:34,080
that they're performing that task

3788
02:37:39,270 --> 02:37:36,880
accurately so the universe is world

3789
02:37:41,349 --> 02:37:39,280
experts in this training process in

3790
02:37:44,070 --> 02:37:41,359
understanding human

3791
02:37:46,550 --> 02:37:44,080
human analysis and using kind of

3792
02:37:49,190 --> 02:37:46,560
qualified humans to rank the other ones

3793
02:37:51,190 --> 02:37:49,200
and say how well this is being done but

3794
02:37:53,110 --> 02:37:51,200
there's been many papers that have been

3795
02:37:55,030 --> 02:37:53,120
published which have demonstrated that

3796
02:37:57,429 --> 02:37:55,040
this citizen science and well-posed

3797
02:37:59,990 --> 02:37:57,439
problems can yield scientific output

3798
02:38:01,750 --> 02:38:00,000
that's every bit as good as the experts

3799
02:38:03,110 --> 02:38:01,760
who did it originally and the great

3800
02:38:06,070 --> 02:38:03,120
thing about this is what we can

3801
02:38:08,070 --> 02:38:06,080
ultimately do is free up those highly

3802
02:38:09,910 --> 02:38:08,080
trained very well educated experts to

3803
02:38:12,070 --> 02:38:09,920
work on even more difficult and more

3804
02:38:13,590 --> 02:38:12,080
challenging tasks

3805
02:38:16,070 --> 02:38:13,600
the results that we're expecting by

3806
02:38:18,309 --> 02:38:16,080
taking about three million catalina sky

3807
02:38:20,870 --> 02:38:18,319
survey images is to

3808
02:38:23,349 --> 02:38:20,880
figure out what the actual complete

3809
02:38:25,190 --> 02:38:23,359
detection efficiency is of that survey

3810
02:38:27,190 --> 02:38:25,200
one of the most prolific surveys on the

3811
02:38:29,590 --> 02:38:27,200
on the planet how much we might be able

3812
02:38:31,670 --> 02:38:29,600
to improve it with better algorithms we

3813
02:38:33,349 --> 02:38:31,680
can work in areas where catalina's

3814
02:38:35,429 --> 02:38:33,359
algorithms are throwing out the data

3815
02:38:37,510 --> 02:38:35,439
because it's difficult for a algorithm

3816
02:38:39,349 --> 02:38:37,520
to involve training losses is a common

3817
02:38:41,750 --> 02:38:39,359
example of this where the asteroid is

3818
02:38:43,590 --> 02:38:41,760
moving through the scene too quickly

3819
02:38:45,349 --> 02:38:43,600
we can also try to figure out from the

3820
02:38:48,790 --> 02:38:45,359
data set itself how many humans does it

3821
02:38:50,389 --> 02:38:48,800
take to really verify this result

3822
02:38:52,870 --> 02:38:50,399
so a number of other things in terms of

3823
02:38:55,429 --> 02:38:52,880
just educating people on asteroids and

3824
02:38:57,270 --> 02:38:55,439
near earth object detection and how this

3825
02:38:58,870 --> 02:38:57,280
science actually works and perhaps

3826
02:39:00,950 --> 02:38:58,880
inspire some people to take up this

3827
02:39:03,990 --> 02:39:00,960
career in the future for students who

3828
02:39:07,030 --> 02:39:05,429
in terms of how we can leverage in the

3829
02:39:09,190 --> 02:39:07,040
future one of them is being announced

3830
02:39:11,270 --> 02:39:09,200
today by using this data set of

3831
02:39:13,670 --> 02:39:11,280
completeness we can then have algorithm

3832
02:39:15,830 --> 02:39:13,680
challenges and work successive algorithm

3833
02:39:17,990 --> 02:39:15,840
challenges to put better algorithms out

3834
02:39:19,750 --> 02:39:18,000
in the field get a five percent increase

3835
02:39:22,150 --> 02:39:19,760
in efficiency perhaps maybe a one

3836
02:39:24,070 --> 02:39:22,160
percent may be greater than that

3837
02:39:25,910 --> 02:39:24,080
but be able to make those surveys

3838
02:39:27,750 --> 02:39:25,920
perform a little bit better

3839
02:39:29,590 --> 02:39:27,760
there's potential for integrating live

3840
02:39:32,070 --> 02:39:29,600
data into this where data could come off

3841
02:39:34,230 --> 02:39:32,080
the telescope the very night and people

3842
02:39:35,750 --> 02:39:34,240
could involved and be verifying the

3843
02:39:37,510 --> 02:39:35,760
discoveries that are made and reporting

3844
02:39:39,190 --> 02:39:37,520
them to the minor planet center

3845
02:39:40,630 --> 02:39:39,200
and other interesting projects like

3846
02:39:43,110 --> 02:39:40,640
project snoopy is one of them that's

3847
02:39:45,030 --> 02:39:43,120
been brought up of finding the apollo 10

3848
02:39:46,790 --> 02:39:45,040
lunar excursion module

3849
02:39:48,550 --> 02:39:46,800
and also linking all those one-night

3850
02:39:51,510 --> 02:39:48,560
observations of things that were found

3851
02:39:54,710 --> 02:39:51,520
but just weren't confirmable

3852
02:39:58,230 --> 02:39:54,720
the algorithm challenges again about

3853
02:40:00,309 --> 02:39:58,240
efficiency uh about detection capability

3854
02:40:01,830 --> 02:40:00,319
about optimizing these pipelines and

3855
02:40:03,670 --> 02:40:01,840
then also using this as a general

3856
02:40:05,190 --> 02:40:03,680
purpose thing not just for near-earth

3857
02:40:06,389 --> 02:40:05,200
objects but everything in the solar

3858
02:40:08,550 --> 02:40:06,399
system that moves

3859
02:40:10,550 --> 02:40:08,560
and planetary resources is interesting

3860
02:40:12,950 --> 02:40:10,560
in taking this technology not only to

3861
02:40:14,950 --> 02:40:12,960
find more asteroids but also to improve

3862
02:40:16,469 --> 02:40:14,960
the ability of space-based surveys to

3863
02:40:18,389 --> 02:40:16,479
make the most efficient use of their

3864
02:40:20,469 --> 02:40:18,399
data pipelines back to earth

3865
02:40:22,230 --> 02:40:20,479
so all closed now uh just wanted to

3866
02:40:24,710 --> 02:40:22,240
thank a few people involved in this not

3867
02:40:27,590 --> 02:40:24,720
only uh the people at nasa with jen

3868
02:40:31,750 --> 02:40:27,600
jason lindley johnson lin

3869
02:40:33,590 --> 02:40:31,760
uh and uh jason cruzan um but uh also

3870
02:40:35,510 --> 02:40:33,600
steve larsen and erica christensen of

3871
02:40:37,670 --> 02:40:35,520
the catalina sky survey for graciously

3872
02:40:39,910 --> 02:40:37,680
providing the data chris lindtot and

3873
02:40:41,590 --> 02:40:39,920
laura white from xenoverse amazon web

3874
02:40:43,750 --> 02:40:41,600
services who will be hosting the

3875
02:40:47,510 --> 02:40:43,760
catalina sky survey as an amazon public

3876
02:40:48,950 --> 02:40:47,520
data set very shortly and tim sparr for

3877
02:40:51,349 --> 02:40:48,960
ruling the solar system like he's always

3878
02:40:53,429 --> 02:40:51,359
been done and keeping the data organized

3879
02:40:55,910 --> 02:40:53,439
so we're very excited to get this

3880
02:40:58,230 --> 02:40:55,920
project started and off the ground we're

3881
02:41:00,309 --> 02:40:58,240
expecting to have some results here

3882
02:41:03,190 --> 02:41:00,319
and have projects online here in just a

3883
02:41:04,870 --> 02:41:03,200
few short months very early in 2014 and

3884
02:41:08,469 --> 02:41:04,880
i hope this can be a model of great

3885
02:41:11,269 --> 02:41:08,479
partnerships between nasa the public and

3886
02:41:12,630 --> 02:41:11,279
private industry capability for solving

3887
02:41:13,830 --> 02:41:12,640
the problems that we have in front of us

3888
02:41:19,269 --> 02:41:13,840
today

3889
02:41:22,309 --> 02:41:21,030
so i can start with one question as

3890
02:41:23,830 --> 02:41:22,319
folks in the room are thinking about

3891
02:41:25,990 --> 02:41:23,840
theirs

3892
02:41:27,990 --> 02:41:26,000
for the benefit of folks in the room and

3893
02:41:29,030 --> 02:41:28,000
also those online can you also explain

3894
02:41:31,590 --> 02:41:29,040
to us

3895
02:41:33,590 --> 02:41:31,600
how this effort um at least in this

3896
02:41:35,030 --> 02:41:33,600
universe effort links up to some of the

3897
02:41:36,230 --> 02:41:35,040
activity you had earlier in the year

3898
02:41:37,750 --> 02:41:36,240
with planetary resources with your

3899
02:41:40,070 --> 02:41:37,760
crowdfunding effort as well just to kind

3900
02:41:41,590 --> 02:41:40,080
of show the whole picture of a little

3901
02:41:44,230 --> 02:41:41,600
bit of how you guys are supporting the

3902
02:41:46,309 --> 02:41:44,240
xenoverse activity as well

3903
02:41:48,230 --> 02:41:46,319
oh absolutely i forgot to even mention

3904
02:41:50,870 --> 02:41:48,240
that this was a project that uh

3905
02:41:53,510 --> 02:41:50,880
planetary resources announced uh back in

3906
02:41:55,590 --> 02:41:53,520
june towards the end of our crowdfunding

3907
02:41:58,550 --> 02:41:55,600
campaign on kickstarter with the arked

3908
02:42:00,150 --> 02:41:58,560
space telescope and part of the activity

3909
02:42:02,469 --> 02:42:00,160
and and funding it at planetary

3910
02:42:05,510 --> 02:42:02,479
resources and also at the adler

3911
02:42:07,349 --> 02:42:05,520
planetarium was funded by crowdfunding

3912
02:42:09,349 --> 02:42:07,359
through kickstarter this was one of the

3913
02:42:12,230 --> 02:42:09,359
pledge levels and stretch goals that we

3914
02:42:14,630 --> 02:42:12,240
had uh near the near the end days of our

3915
02:42:16,150 --> 02:42:14,640
campaign and as a result of that uh the

3916
02:42:18,389 --> 02:42:16,160
xenoverse team decided to take this

3917
02:42:20,389 --> 02:42:18,399
project up and uh we've been working on

3918
02:42:22,150 --> 02:42:20,399
uh getting the project developed and

3919
02:42:25,190 --> 02:42:22,160
incorporated in work that uh we can

3920
02:42:27,830 --> 02:42:25,200
provide data for nasa as well

3921
02:42:29,830 --> 02:42:27,840
so interesting models for um fundraising

3922
02:42:32,630 --> 02:42:29,840
um that they've that they've begun to

3923
02:42:34,870 --> 02:42:32,640
experience so another question um chris

3924
02:42:36,870 --> 02:42:34,880
uh additional data you said that

3925
02:42:38,870 --> 02:42:36,880
catalina would start off this universe

3926
02:42:40,710 --> 02:42:38,880
activity do you have any other thoughts

3927
02:42:42,150 --> 02:42:40,720
about other surveys potentially other

3928
02:42:43,990 --> 02:42:42,160
data sources that you're thinking

3929
02:42:46,150 --> 02:42:44,000
downstream might be plugged into this

3930
02:42:48,870 --> 02:42:46,160
universe activity

3931
02:42:51,670 --> 02:42:48,880
absolutely it's very easy to go to the

3932
02:42:53,830 --> 02:42:51,680
jpl or the minor planet website and look

3933
02:42:56,550 --> 02:42:53,840
at the detection rates of the various

3934
02:42:58,630 --> 02:42:56,560
surveys that are out there uh most of

3935
02:43:00,230 --> 02:42:58,640
them nasa funded them some of them

3936
02:43:02,230 --> 02:43:00,240
department of defense and some of them

3937
02:43:04,550 --> 02:43:02,240
private work catalina has been the most

3938
02:43:07,110 --> 02:43:04,560
prolific and the data set that we have

3939
02:43:10,150 --> 02:43:07,120
to work with from them is about 25

3940
02:43:11,670 --> 02:43:10,160
telescope years of data about 3 million

3941
02:43:13,910 --> 02:43:11,680
images total

3942
02:43:15,590 --> 02:43:13,920
that we'll go through and analyze but

3943
02:43:17,990 --> 02:43:15,600
things like linear

3944
02:43:20,550 --> 02:43:18,000
space watch which actually run ran its

3945
02:43:22,790 --> 02:43:20,560
own citizen science activity

3946
02:43:25,590 --> 02:43:22,800
and were pioneers in this area very

3947
02:43:28,950 --> 02:43:25,600
early on uh is an opportunity for uh get

3948
02:43:30,630 --> 02:43:28,960
to that data online uh and essentially

3949
02:43:32,389 --> 02:43:30,640
prove this out with the catalina data

3950
02:43:34,550 --> 02:43:32,399
set and then as we're able and

3951
02:43:36,469 --> 02:43:34,560
interested and if we have shown that

3952
02:43:41,510 --> 02:43:36,479
it's producing good results

3953
02:43:45,349 --> 02:43:43,910
thanks so much chris this is jason um

3954
02:43:47,910 --> 02:43:45,359
and in a

3955
02:43:50,710 --> 02:43:47,920
an effort of continual improvement uh

3956
02:43:53,429 --> 02:43:50,720
this is very fresh but do you have a

3957
02:43:55,510 --> 02:43:53,439
sense of anything that we on the nasa

3958
02:43:57,590 --> 02:43:55,520
side that could have done better to make

3959
02:44:00,070 --> 02:43:57,600
this easier

3960
02:44:02,150 --> 02:44:00,080
thoughts on as we move forward in

3961
02:44:03,349 --> 02:44:02,160
additional partnerships how can we

3962
02:44:04,870 --> 02:44:03,359
improve

3963
02:44:08,469 --> 02:44:04,880
from our end

3964
02:44:10,550 --> 02:44:08,479
for folks that want to engage with us

3965
02:44:14,389 --> 02:44:10,560
well i think as you mentioned it is very

3966
02:44:15,750 --> 02:44:14,399
fresh and uh not quite first of its kind

3967
02:44:17,269 --> 02:44:15,760
but for us

3968
02:44:19,269 --> 02:44:17,279
as a as

3969
02:44:21,670 --> 02:44:19,279
as a business and as a commercial

3970
02:44:23,910 --> 02:44:21,680
for-profit company uh it was kind of a

3971
02:44:26,309 --> 02:44:23,920
new thing both with our xenoverse

3972
02:44:28,309 --> 02:44:26,319
partners as well as with nasa the space

3973
02:44:29,269 --> 02:44:28,319
act process allows us to kind of work

3974
02:44:31,030 --> 02:44:29,279
these

3975
02:44:33,269 --> 02:44:31,040
relationships out and define the

3976
02:44:35,110 --> 02:44:33,279
responsibilities and i think in doing

3977
02:44:37,830 --> 02:44:35,120
that that was a very valuable thing for

3978
02:44:39,510 --> 02:44:37,840
planetary resources to identify what

3979
02:44:41,670 --> 02:44:39,520
nasa was going to take on and be

3980
02:44:43,990 --> 02:44:41,680
responsible for and where nasa was going

3981
02:44:45,830 --> 02:44:44,000
to commit resources and similarly where

3982
02:44:47,670 --> 02:44:45,840
planetary resources was going to do the

3983
02:44:49,510 --> 02:44:47,680
same and where we each can bring

3984
02:44:51,990 --> 02:44:49,520
leadership and capability and knowledge

3985
02:44:54,389 --> 02:44:52,000
to the table to achieve what ultimately

3986
02:44:56,230 --> 02:44:54,399
is a common goal as articulated in our

3987
02:44:59,349 --> 02:44:56,240
space act agreement

3988
02:45:04,150 --> 02:45:01,670
we have a question from social media

3989
02:45:05,910 --> 02:45:04,160
yeah somebody is asking if you could

3990
02:45:08,790 --> 02:45:05,920
provide more details on levels of

3991
02:45:12,469 --> 02:45:10,870
on levels of partnership this might be a

3992
02:45:14,469 --> 02:45:12,479
you question on levels of partnership

3993
02:45:16,150 --> 02:45:14,479
with the asteroid grand challenge

3994
02:45:17,429 --> 02:45:16,160
so we can define levels how we want to

3995
02:45:20,150 --> 02:45:17,439
define levels because it's not clear in

3996
02:45:21,990 --> 02:45:20,160
the question yeah yeah i'm

3997
02:45:23,349 --> 02:45:22,000
not sure i'm clear on what they're

3998
02:45:26,830 --> 02:45:23,359
asking but

3999
02:45:29,830 --> 02:45:26,840
uh in terms of the grand challenge

4000
02:45:31,590 --> 02:45:29,840
uh really our first step has been to

4001
02:45:32,469 --> 02:45:31,600
engage

4002
02:45:35,110 --> 02:45:32,479
with

4003
02:45:37,990 --> 02:45:35,120
communicating about what it is

4004
02:45:40,230 --> 02:45:38,000
and recognizing that they're going to be

4005
02:45:41,590 --> 02:45:40,240
lots of different people that can plug

4006
02:45:43,510 --> 02:45:41,600
in that are going to bring lots of

4007
02:45:45,830 --> 02:45:43,520
different resources

4008
02:45:48,230 --> 02:45:45,840
here we see an excellent example of a

4009
02:45:50,150 --> 02:45:48,240
space act agreement that

4010
02:45:55,110 --> 02:45:50,160
has made it through the system where

4011
02:46:00,150 --> 02:45:56,950
areas of interest that overlap and the

4012
02:46:02,630 --> 02:46:00,160
parties can can can come together to get

4013
02:46:03,429 --> 02:46:02,640
to that future that we share

4014
02:46:04,790 --> 02:46:03,439
uh

4015
02:46:07,510 --> 02:46:04,800
i'm sitting next to the prize and

4016
02:46:10,950 --> 02:46:07,520
challenges lead uh and i anticipate that

4017
02:46:12,950 --> 02:46:10,960
there's a future there as well where uh

4018
02:46:16,710 --> 02:46:12,960
a level of partnership

4019
02:46:17,590 --> 02:46:16,720
could be a prize uh or some incentive

4020
02:46:19,910 --> 02:46:17,600
that

4021
02:46:22,550 --> 02:46:19,920
brings people into this and so

4022
02:46:25,110 --> 02:46:22,560
at this point we're really wide open in

4023
02:46:26,550 --> 02:46:25,120
our conversation we've heard a number of

4024
02:46:30,309 --> 02:46:26,560
great presentations here in the

4025
02:46:34,630 --> 02:46:32,309
discussion already

4026
02:46:35,990 --> 02:46:34,640
and in terms of getting amateurs engaged

4027
02:46:37,590 --> 02:46:36,000
i think

4028
02:46:40,309 --> 02:46:37,600
it's been clear that one of the things

4029
02:46:42,070 --> 02:46:40,319
that nasa can bring

4030
02:46:44,630 --> 02:46:42,080
usefully is

4031
02:46:47,590 --> 02:46:44,640
is our brand and some of the science and

4032
02:46:49,750 --> 02:46:47,600
technical expertise uh and and part of

4033
02:46:52,950 --> 02:46:49,760
the question i was

4034
02:46:54,630 --> 02:46:52,960
asking uh with chris was how do we not

4035
02:46:55,990 --> 02:46:54,640
slow people down

4036
02:46:57,429 --> 02:46:56,000
because that's one of the things i heard

4037
02:47:00,230 --> 02:46:57,439
this morning in the partnership

4038
02:47:02,070 --> 02:47:00,240
participatory engagement is

4039
02:47:04,469 --> 02:47:02,080
our processes can be

4040
02:47:06,469 --> 02:47:04,479
slow and government can move at a pace

4041
02:47:08,070 --> 02:47:06,479
that's a little different and so that's

4042
02:47:12,550 --> 02:47:08,080
going to be one for us to explore as we

4043
02:47:15,590 --> 02:47:14,070
any other questions for chris yep in the

4044
02:47:18,150 --> 02:47:15,600
room so

4045
02:47:20,230 --> 02:47:18,160
given your long-term goal of uh actually

4046
02:47:20,950 --> 02:47:20,240
finding resources on an asteroid how do

4047
02:47:27,910 --> 02:47:20,960
you

4048
02:47:32,950 --> 02:47:30,710
so part of this is for the specific goal

4049
02:47:34,870 --> 02:47:32,960
of finding more asteroids and finding

4050
02:47:38,150 --> 02:47:34,880
more potential targets and understanding

4051
02:47:39,990 --> 02:47:38,160
their orbits in higher higher precision

4052
02:47:41,670 --> 02:47:40,000
but part of it also is about

4053
02:47:44,309 --> 02:47:41,680
understanding this technique for solving

4054
02:47:46,070 --> 02:47:44,319
problems as a generic tool

4055
02:47:48,230 --> 02:47:46,080
using the best minds on the planet to

4056
02:47:49,670 --> 02:47:48,240
create the best algorithms to do

4057
02:47:50,389 --> 02:47:49,680
efficient things

4058
02:47:55,429 --> 02:47:50,399
with

4059
02:47:58,230 --> 02:47:55,439
robotics that allow us to give our goals

4060
02:47:59,990 --> 02:47:58,240
so this is a bit of a pathfinder for

4061
02:48:02,630 --> 02:48:00,000
what we're doing and i anticipate that

4062
02:48:05,269 --> 02:48:02,640
we will do a number of things like this

4063
02:48:06,469 --> 02:48:05,279
to engage the broad community i think

4064
02:48:09,429 --> 02:48:06,479
andy is going to give you some more

4065
02:48:11,910 --> 02:48:09,439
detail from a top coder perspective on

4066
02:48:13,830 --> 02:48:11,920
how challenges like these actually work

4067
02:48:15,750 --> 02:48:13,840
in finding the best algorithms and the

4068
02:48:18,389 --> 02:48:15,760
best coders out there

4069
02:48:21,349 --> 02:48:18,399
so that's in part how it helps us to

4070
02:48:23,590 --> 02:48:21,359
start achieve our objectives uh and uh

4071
02:48:25,750 --> 02:48:23,600
as as often said you can't go and mine

4072
02:48:28,230 --> 02:48:25,760
an asteroid unless you know where it is

4073
02:48:29,990 --> 02:48:28,240
and that's uh we have a great database

4074
02:48:31,269 --> 02:48:30,000
to start with and we'd like to to make

4075
02:48:33,670 --> 02:48:31,279
it even better

4076
02:48:35,269 --> 02:48:33,680
um and one i have one additional quest

4077
02:48:37,030 --> 02:48:35,279
uh question this is both for chris and

4078
02:48:39,349 --> 02:48:37,040
for lynn just because i want to make

4079
02:48:41,030 --> 02:48:39,359
sure i remember correctly the algorithms

4080
02:48:42,710 --> 02:48:41,040
at the end of the challenges it's the

4081
02:48:44,070 --> 02:48:42,720
intention to release these open source

4082
02:48:45,510 --> 02:48:44,080
or what happens with the algorithms at

4083
02:48:47,030 --> 02:48:45,520
the end

4084
02:48:48,550 --> 02:48:47,040
yeah and lynn says in the room the

4085
02:48:50,389 --> 02:48:48,560
intention is to release them open source

4086
02:48:52,309 --> 02:48:50,399
so this becomes an important thing for

4087
02:48:53,830 --> 02:48:52,319
those other folks that are interested in

4088
02:48:55,670 --> 02:48:53,840
increasing the detection efficiency of

4089
02:48:57,429 --> 02:48:55,680
surveys the point of this is that it's a

4090
02:48:59,110 --> 02:48:57,439
pub that that algorithm becomes a public

4091
02:49:01,590 --> 02:48:59,120
good

4092
02:49:02,630 --> 02:49:01,600
yes and this is released via gnu

4093
02:49:04,230 --> 02:49:02,640
licenses

4094
02:49:06,950 --> 02:49:04,240
uh gpl

4095
02:49:09,510 --> 02:49:06,960
type uh information the algorithms

4096
02:49:11,670 --> 02:49:09,520
as well as the data associated with the

4097
02:49:13,110 --> 02:49:11,680
surveys

4098
02:49:16,070 --> 02:49:13,120
thank you chris any other questions in

4099
02:49:24,070 --> 02:49:16,080
room if not we'll move on to andy

4100
02:49:29,110 --> 02:49:26,710
all right um we will move on to the last

4101
02:49:31,670 --> 02:49:29,120
presenter right now um andy lamora who's

4102
02:49:33,750 --> 02:49:31,680
with topcoder who as lynn um had

4103
02:49:35,349 --> 02:49:33,760
mentioned earlier is one of the

4104
02:49:36,870 --> 02:49:35,359
subcontractors that we work with through

4105
02:49:38,550 --> 02:49:36,880
the nasa tournament lab that will be

4106
02:49:41,190 --> 02:49:38,560
working with us on

4107
02:49:44,309 --> 02:49:41,200
this particular contest-driven algorithm

4108
02:49:46,950 --> 02:49:44,319
development activity um he's the last

4109
02:49:48,469 --> 02:49:46,960
presenter of uh the afternoon we'll take

4110
02:49:51,030 --> 02:49:48,479
a quick break and then we'll come back

4111
02:49:53,110 --> 02:49:51,040
for uh the general discussion for the

4112
02:49:55,110 --> 02:49:53,120
remainder of the time

4113
02:49:57,750 --> 02:49:55,120
and i would like to propose that we

4114
02:49:59,590 --> 02:49:57,760
maybe move our chairs into a circle and

4115
02:50:00,790 --> 02:49:59,600
have more of a discussion for that that

4116
02:50:03,910 --> 02:50:00,800
point so it doesn't feel quite so

4117
02:50:06,469 --> 02:50:03,920
auditorium style um and uh we'll finish

4118
02:50:08,469 --> 02:50:06,479
it off having a discussion about filling

4119
02:50:10,550 --> 02:50:08,479
the gaps um on some of these print

4120
02:50:14,309 --> 02:50:10,560
presentations synergies between some of

4121
02:50:16,309 --> 02:50:14,319
the ideas um and uh figuring out um

4122
02:50:17,670 --> 02:50:16,319
potentially uh ways to move forward as a

4123
02:50:20,870 --> 02:50:17,680
community so

4124
02:50:23,349 --> 02:50:20,880
um with that andy can you hear me

4125
02:50:25,510 --> 02:50:23,359
hi jen yes i can okay can we turn up

4126
02:50:27,110 --> 02:50:25,520
andy's volume a little bit great um all

4127
02:50:29,349 --> 02:50:27,120
right andy i'm going to toss it over the

4128
02:50:30,950 --> 02:50:29,359
fence to you

4129
02:50:33,510 --> 02:50:30,960
all right thanks a lot jen

4130
02:50:35,269 --> 02:50:33,520
and it's obviously wonderful to be here

4131
02:50:36,630 --> 02:50:35,279
we're really honored to be able to speak

4132
02:50:39,349 --> 02:50:36,640
to such a

4133
02:50:42,309 --> 02:50:39,359
good and engaged and interesting group

4134
02:50:44,550 --> 02:50:42,319
um i'd like to also echo lynn i said

4135
02:50:46,469 --> 02:50:44,560
earlier that walking into a room and

4136
02:50:47,990 --> 02:50:46,479
finding that there's a ready definition

4137
02:50:51,349 --> 02:50:48,000
of crowdsourcing

4138
02:50:53,510 --> 02:50:51,359
is both extremely welcome um and and a

4139
02:50:55,030 --> 02:50:53,520
little surprising uh it's not what we're

4140
02:50:56,790 --> 02:50:55,040
always used to

4141
02:50:58,630 --> 02:50:56,800
as a result some of my slides are

4142
02:51:00,309 --> 02:50:58,640
probably a bit more high school level

4143
02:51:02,710 --> 02:51:00,319
than this graduate level transformation

4144
02:51:05,429 --> 02:51:02,720
class so i'll try to skip over them as

4145
02:51:07,510 --> 02:51:05,439
quickly as i can um but without further

4146
02:51:09,190 --> 02:51:07,520
ado let's jump in

4147
02:51:13,030 --> 02:51:09,200
as christian i'd like to talk a little

4148
02:51:14,950 --> 02:51:13,040
bit uh about how we handle crowdsourcing

4149
02:51:16,710 --> 02:51:14,960
um because i think we have a

4150
02:51:19,190 --> 02:51:16,720
slightly unique take on it from what

4151
02:51:22,309 --> 02:51:19,200
you've seen before um

4152
02:51:23,910 --> 02:51:22,319
and let me try advancing a slide here

4153
02:51:25,830 --> 02:51:23,920
now i have someone to advance this up i

4154
02:51:26,870 --> 02:51:25,840
never mind i have it right here

4155
02:51:27,910 --> 02:51:26,880
thank you

4156
02:51:29,830 --> 02:51:27,920
um

4157
02:51:31,590 --> 02:51:29,840
i have to mention first of course that

4158
02:51:33,750 --> 02:51:31,600
you know you may have heard one of the

4159
02:51:36,389 --> 02:51:33,760
two top code in september is acquired by

4160
02:51:37,830 --> 02:51:36,399
april apparel had an existing

4161
02:51:39,910 --> 02:51:37,840
crowdsourcing company

4162
02:51:42,469 --> 02:51:39,920
called cloud spokes as a subdivision

4163
02:51:44,790 --> 02:51:42,479
which ironically have been developed by

4164
02:51:46,630 --> 02:51:44,800
former top codings anyway

4165
02:51:50,630 --> 02:51:46,640
and the combined community is now just

4166
02:51:53,269 --> 02:51:50,640
shy of six hundred thousand contributors

4167
02:51:54,790 --> 02:51:53,279
um it's as a practical matter it doesn't

4168
02:51:56,870 --> 02:51:54,800
have much effect on what we're doing

4169
02:51:58,389 --> 02:51:56,880
with ntl except that it does bring

4170
02:52:00,950 --> 02:51:58,399
additional competencies to bear

4171
02:52:03,590 --> 02:52:00,960
especially uh especially in

4172
02:52:05,990 --> 02:52:03,600
cloud and service-based technologies

4173
02:52:08,950 --> 02:52:06,000
so my journey through today is to talk

4174
02:52:11,349 --> 02:52:08,960
about community by community

4175
02:52:12,950 --> 02:52:11,359
through us this is the concept of using

4176
02:52:14,630 --> 02:52:12,960
one community and

4177
02:52:17,590 --> 02:52:14,640
directing and channeling it through

4178
02:52:19,269 --> 02:52:17,600
incentives uh to focusing on a problem

4179
02:52:21,750 --> 02:52:19,279
that might interest another community so

4180
02:52:23,349 --> 02:52:21,760
how can you see one with the other

4181
02:52:25,830 --> 02:52:23,359
first we'll talk a little bit about our

4182
02:52:27,830 --> 02:52:25,840
top coated those things crowdsourcing in

4183
02:52:29,830 --> 02:52:27,840
general accomplishments and contests

4184
02:52:32,870 --> 02:52:29,840
just to kind of move to the case of how

4185
02:52:34,550 --> 02:52:32,880
we use these to work with crowdsourcing

4186
02:52:36,230 --> 02:52:34,560
communities in general

4187
02:52:37,670 --> 02:52:36,240
and then let's apply it let's talk about

4188
02:52:39,990 --> 02:52:37,680
what we can do

4189
02:52:40,790 --> 02:52:40,000
to advance asteroids

4190
02:52:47,510 --> 02:52:40,800
so

4191
02:52:49,830 --> 02:52:47,520
community it's 519 000 people worldwide

4192
02:52:52,469 --> 02:52:49,840
uh all interested in design and

4193
02:52:54,389 --> 02:52:52,479
development in some manner so we have

4194
02:52:56,710 --> 02:52:54,399
front end design so people are doing

4195
02:52:58,150 --> 02:52:56,720
graphics like for example the slide uh

4196
02:53:00,389 --> 02:52:58,160
folks who are doing development

4197
02:53:03,910 --> 02:53:00,399
everything from software to mobile

4198
02:53:06,710 --> 02:53:03,920
applications software services.com uh to

4199
02:53:08,710 --> 02:53:06,720
algorithmics and analytics um and to

4200
02:53:10,550 --> 02:53:08,720
people who are not represented on this

4201
02:53:13,830 --> 02:53:10,560
slide but who simply comes here to have

4202
02:53:16,230 --> 02:53:13,840
fun they join top coder and work on

4203
02:53:18,469 --> 02:53:16,240
three 90-minute extremely difficult word

4204
02:53:19,990 --> 02:53:18,479
problems in competition with each other

4205
02:53:20,870 --> 02:53:20,000
in the middle of the night and they call

4206
02:53:23,269 --> 02:53:20,880
that

4207
02:53:27,030 --> 02:53:24,710
falconer

4208
02:53:29,190 --> 02:53:27,040
comes to the project or a challenge and

4209
02:53:30,870 --> 02:53:29,200
as we said we kind of use them

4210
02:53:33,030 --> 02:53:30,880
interchangeably throughout the challenge

4211
02:53:35,349 --> 02:53:33,040
is something that you want to accomplish

4212
02:53:37,750 --> 02:53:35,359
we approach them by breaking them down

4213
02:53:41,190 --> 02:53:37,760
into a lot of constituents

4214
02:53:43,830 --> 02:53:41,200
interest areas we call this atomization

4215
02:53:46,309 --> 02:53:43,840
we do it because we have found that the

4216
02:53:48,230 --> 02:53:46,319
best way to attract people and against

4217
02:53:51,349 --> 02:53:48,240
the interest of people who have covered

4218
02:53:53,110 --> 02:53:51,359
surplus is to do in a spot where they

4219
02:53:55,190 --> 02:53:53,120
have a sharp interest at a certain

4220
02:53:57,269 --> 02:53:55,200
amount at a certain time

4221
02:53:58,870 --> 02:53:57,279
for example as a practical matter it

4222
02:54:01,510 --> 02:53:58,880
might be difficult to find somebody

4223
02:54:03,590 --> 02:54:01,520
who's willing to build an entire mobile

4224
02:54:05,670 --> 02:54:03,600
application that's able to integrate

4225
02:54:08,230 --> 02:54:05,680
four or five different data sources

4226
02:54:10,309 --> 02:54:08,240
provide augmented reality uh and look

4227
02:54:13,349 --> 02:54:10,319
beautifully easy to use

4228
02:54:15,750 --> 02:54:13,359
for a couple hundred dollars in a week

4229
02:54:16,950 --> 02:54:15,760
but you can find somebody for usually if

4230
02:54:18,550 --> 02:54:16,960
you're really interested in doing

4231
02:54:20,070 --> 02:54:18,560
something that's beautiful

4232
02:54:21,590 --> 02:54:20,080
and another person who's really

4233
02:54:24,389 --> 02:54:21,600
interested in doing something that's

4234
02:54:26,230 --> 02:54:24,399
wonderful code and yet another one who's

4235
02:54:28,389 --> 02:54:26,240
very interested in

4236
02:54:30,070 --> 02:54:28,399
data sources and figuring out how to get

4237
02:54:32,150 --> 02:54:30,080
them synchronized

4238
02:54:33,510 --> 02:54:32,160
so if you can break your challenge down

4239
02:54:35,750 --> 02:54:33,520
into many

4240
02:54:37,670 --> 02:54:35,760
constituent challenges you have a much

4241
02:54:39,910 --> 02:54:37,680
higher probability of having a

4242
02:54:42,309 --> 02:54:39,920
sustainable outcome you might once or

4243
02:54:44,710 --> 02:54:42,319
twice get the moons hot but having a

4244
02:54:47,030 --> 02:54:44,720
sustainable outcome both in algorithmics

4245
02:54:49,510 --> 02:54:47,040
and in regular software production

4246
02:54:51,269 --> 02:54:49,520
requires this sort of approach

4247
02:54:53,429 --> 02:54:51,279
if anybody has more questions about this

4248
02:54:56,950 --> 02:54:53,439
feel free to give me afterwards i think

4249
02:55:01,190 --> 02:54:59,190
we're often asked how you if you're

4250
02:55:02,870 --> 02:55:01,200
running a contest how do you decide a

4251
02:55:04,309 --> 02:55:02,880
winner really briefly because i think it

4252
02:55:07,110 --> 02:55:04,319
would play into what we're going to talk

4253
02:55:09,429 --> 02:55:07,120
about few minutes here um a very

4254
02:55:11,510 --> 02:55:09,439
subjective contest can only be judged

4255
02:55:13,349 --> 02:55:11,520
subjectively that you pick it

4256
02:55:15,590 --> 02:55:13,359
but a software contest it gets

4257
02:55:17,670 --> 02:55:15,600
increasingly deterministic as you work

4258
02:55:19,830 --> 02:55:17,680
with requirements i want this thing that

4259
02:55:22,550 --> 02:55:19,840
does that thing this many times in that

4260
02:55:23,750 --> 02:55:22,560
amount of time um with this much space

4261
02:55:25,830 --> 02:55:23,760
on the screen

4262
02:55:27,910 --> 02:55:25,840
in that case it's objectives we scored

4263
02:55:30,870 --> 02:55:27,920
things on a scorecard and then you get

4264
02:55:33,510 --> 02:55:30,880
the algorithm contents and analytics

4265
02:55:35,429 --> 02:55:33,520
our take on running a marathon where we

4266
02:55:38,070 --> 02:55:35,439
call it marathon challenge by an

4267
02:55:39,990 --> 02:55:38,080
algorithm challenge is not to have an

4268
02:55:42,550 --> 02:55:40,000
open call and ask for the best

4269
02:55:43,269 --> 02:55:42,560
it's to develop a scoring algorithm

4270
02:55:47,910 --> 02:55:43,279
that

4271
02:55:50,870 --> 02:55:47,920
and to build a little bit around it so

4272
02:55:52,630 --> 02:55:50,880
over a two three or one week period

4273
02:55:55,190 --> 02:55:52,640
contestants are submitting code it's

4274
02:56:01,349 --> 02:55:55,200
actually run and compiled by top code

4275
02:56:07,670 --> 02:56:04,469
so you're kind of hitting the four g's

4276
02:56:10,309 --> 02:56:07,680
that jim had referenced before

4277
02:56:12,550 --> 02:56:10,319
you have guts just to take on a problem

4278
02:56:15,269 --> 02:56:12,560
like find a better configuration for the

4279
02:56:17,190 --> 02:56:15,279
solar panels on the on the

4280
02:56:20,790 --> 02:56:17,200
international space station

4281
02:56:22,469 --> 02:56:20,800
gold because there's 30 grand in space

4282
02:56:24,389 --> 02:56:22,479
because you're helping the iss and

4283
02:56:27,110 --> 02:56:24,399
growing because you should solve the

4284
02:56:29,429 --> 02:56:27,120
problem on the iss

4285
02:56:32,389 --> 02:56:29,439
i move things along here um i'll skip

4286
02:56:34,389 --> 02:56:32,399
this line in the sense of time okay this

4287
02:56:35,750 --> 02:56:34,399
is probably speaking appreciate to

4288
02:56:37,830 --> 02:56:35,760
acquire but

4289
02:56:39,750 --> 02:56:37,840
we'll cover anyway just to make sure our

4290
02:56:42,070 --> 02:56:39,760
terminology is the same

4291
02:56:43,830 --> 02:56:42,080
as probably familiar a lot has been

4292
02:56:45,910 --> 02:56:43,840
accomplished with crowdsourcing in the

4293
02:56:48,710 --> 02:56:45,920
last couple years some very notable

4294
02:56:51,269 --> 02:56:48,720
examples of course are linux java

4295
02:56:53,830 --> 02:56:51,279
wikipedia service and national

4296
02:56:56,389 --> 02:56:53,840
geographic um the national geographic

4297
02:56:58,230 --> 02:56:56,399
fuel expedition mongolia is a project

4298
02:56:59,910 --> 02:56:58,240
that moon was referring to earlier and

4299
02:57:01,190 --> 02:56:59,920
we'll that'll come back to us here in

4300
02:57:02,790 --> 02:57:01,200
just a minute

4301
02:57:04,070 --> 02:57:02,800
uh linux i think everyone published

4302
02:57:06,309 --> 02:57:04,080
memories which although won't be a

4303
02:57:09,269 --> 02:57:06,319
surprise this is one that started with

4304
02:57:12,389 --> 02:57:09,279
begun by fun but was amplified by a

4305
02:57:16,630 --> 02:57:14,070
so too have things been accomplished

4306
02:57:18,309 --> 02:57:16,640
with contests some famous and maybe some

4307
02:57:19,990 --> 02:57:18,319
surprising examples include the

4308
02:57:22,550 --> 02:57:20,000
longitude contest

4309
02:57:24,550 --> 02:57:22,560
in the 18th century the

4310
02:57:26,550 --> 02:57:24,560
british parliament put a 20 thousand

4311
02:57:28,309 --> 02:57:26,560
pound prize up for anyone who could

4312
02:57:30,550 --> 02:57:28,319
figure out how to

4313
02:57:32,710 --> 02:57:30,560
determine longitude at sea so that they

4314
02:57:34,309 --> 02:57:32,720
would stop losing entire fleets

4315
02:57:37,590 --> 02:57:34,319
the fellow who run it was a cabinet

4316
02:57:40,870 --> 02:57:37,600
maker who knew the value of having uh of

4317
02:57:42,950 --> 02:57:40,880
understanding how it works uh and

4318
02:57:44,870 --> 02:57:42,960
keeping it from chronometer steady so

4319
02:57:46,950 --> 02:57:44,880
you'd know when you were at sea

4320
02:57:49,030 --> 02:57:46,960
the white house

4321
02:57:50,870 --> 02:57:49,040
was running through contests that was

4322
02:57:52,309 --> 02:57:50,880
hosted and judged by none other than

4323
02:57:55,030 --> 02:57:52,319
george washington

4324
02:57:57,590 --> 02:57:55,040
canned food was developed by a contest

4325
02:57:59,910 --> 02:57:57,600
posted by napoleon who was very

4326
02:58:02,389 --> 02:57:59,920
concerned about how to feed his troops

4327
02:58:04,630 --> 02:58:02,399
you have lindbergh's flight and sorry x

4328
02:58:05,830 --> 02:58:04,640
prize and maybe one or two things goes

4329
02:58:07,910 --> 02:58:05,840
out there

4330
02:58:09,429 --> 02:58:07,920
he's done a lot of academic research

4331
02:58:11,190 --> 02:58:09,439
about this and

4332
02:58:12,710 --> 02:58:11,200
you can i can make this slide available

4333
02:58:14,710 --> 02:58:12,720
for anyone who'd like to find it but

4334
02:58:16,309 --> 02:58:14,720
it's a it's a hot topic and under a

4335
02:58:18,790 --> 02:58:16,319
large study right now

4336
02:58:20,950 --> 02:58:18,800
so how is topcoder look at this and how

4337
02:58:25,190 --> 02:58:20,960
is this going to help in uh in

4338
02:58:27,510 --> 02:58:25,200
crowdsourcing uh and community science

4339
02:58:30,070 --> 02:58:27,520
uh we run through a few examples um

4340
02:58:32,550 --> 02:58:30,080
really cuts from this one we are a

4341
02:58:34,630 --> 02:58:32,560
subcontractor to harvard institute of

4342
02:58:36,630 --> 02:58:34,640
politics social science

4343
02:58:38,550 --> 02:58:36,640
and serve the advanced deployment lab

4344
02:58:40,710 --> 02:58:38,560
through them we've developed an ipad

4345
02:58:43,510 --> 02:58:40,720
application for use by the astronauts

4346
02:58:45,429 --> 02:58:43,520
the tractor diet on the space station

4347
02:58:47,670 --> 02:58:45,439
we've developed an image processing

4348
02:58:50,150 --> 02:58:47,680
algorithm to determine if there are any

4349
02:58:53,110 --> 02:58:50,160
threats near an oil pipeline

4350
02:58:55,910 --> 02:58:53,120
and we've developed a web-based api q a

4351
02:58:58,309 --> 02:58:55,920
restful api that integrates the

4352
02:59:00,309 --> 02:58:58,319
federated data systems for planetary

4353
02:59:02,150 --> 02:59:00,319
data services on top of that we also

4354
02:59:04,630 --> 02:59:02,160
built some applications that demonstrate

4355
02:59:05,429 --> 02:59:04,640
its uh its utility and of course back in

4356
02:59:09,510 --> 02:59:05,439
this

4357
02:59:11,269 --> 02:59:09,520
ran a marquee challenge for the

4358
02:59:13,429 --> 02:59:11,279
international space station

4359
02:59:17,830 --> 02:59:13,439
to determine optimum configuration from

4360
02:59:20,230 --> 02:59:17,840
solar panels that minimize the shadowing

4361
02:59:22,630 --> 02:59:20,240
so this is the point here it's a very

4362
02:59:24,469 --> 02:59:22,640
broad spectrum of questions that you can

4363
02:59:27,349 --> 02:59:24,479
ask the community even one that is

4364
02:59:30,469 --> 02:59:27,359
engaged with with math

4365
02:59:32,469 --> 02:59:30,479
perhaps not that surprising uh this is a

4366
02:59:36,070 --> 02:59:32,479
challenge to improve the performance of

4367
02:59:38,550 --> 02:59:36,080
mega blast the green m is what the nih

4368
02:59:40,830 --> 02:59:38,560
uh has achieved the blue f is when

4369
02:59:42,550 --> 02:59:40,840
oxford trained mit

4370
02:59:44,630 --> 02:59:42,560
graduate

4371
02:59:47,670 --> 02:59:44,640
phd postdoc who was able to achieve in

4372
02:59:49,590 --> 02:59:47,680
about a year um and the red dot is the

4373
02:59:51,510 --> 02:59:49,600
top total result in the period contest

4374
02:59:53,429 --> 02:59:51,520
for six thousand dollars

4375
02:59:54,950 --> 02:59:53,439
so some surprising outcomes can be

4376
02:59:56,389 --> 02:59:54,960
achieved with contests when you can

4377
02:59:58,469 --> 02:59:56,399
attract crowds who have an interest in